Defining measurements [Archive] - Divine Cosmos Discussions

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Jeremy Weiland

11-22-2001, 10:04 AM

Wow, great post, Seth!

> Yes that, in iteslf, the measuring/analizing
> S.T.S. v.s. S.T.O. for one's own benefit, can
> be a S.T.S. act--as long as such an act is
> done within the idea that one is separate
> from others, thus measuring one's own
> evolvement regardless of how one's mass
> reality is more harmonious or less harmonious
> after one's own contribution to the whole.

Well, that's a good point. First of all, we need to
realize that S.T.O./S.T.S. polarity is something that
we either are or are not. It's very rare that
somebody makes a conscious choice to be one way or
another, according to Ra: usually the decision of
which path to take is made preincarnatively, resulting
from the inate biases of each soul. The soul, while
incarnated, can experience catalyst that can polarize
or depolarize it, but usually the direction has been
chosen. The point of 3D, once the preincarnative
choice has been made, is to polarize to a certain
minimum degree. Somebody correct me if my
understanding here is wrong.

So what this means is that: there is no need to worry
about whether you are on the path or not. If you're
being honest with yourself about your thoughts and
actions and desires, you're going to find out very
quickly which path you are on.

Besides, I agree: worrying about whether you are STO
enough can be done in a context where you only care
about your own evolution and progress. If you don't
understand that service to others is part of that, you
are not integrating STO in the highest manner. In
fact, pretty much any type of worrying is a fear
based, STS action that results from a state of
separation, right?

> I think that the measuring of S.T.S. or
> S.T.O. is vital in one' path
> Homeward--otherwise, how is one to measure
> one's place on one's path objectively?

Agreed: I can't see anything wrong with wanting to
know where you're at. But I also think, unless you
are highly sensitized to multidimensionality (i.e.
psychic) you're going to have a hard time measuring
the degree of vibration a person has. And that's the
only real objective measure of polarity, I believe.

But I don't have a problem personally with not having
an objective measure of polarity. I'm pretty much
resigned to the fact that my experience on this plane
is overwhelmingly subjective - because it is, in large
part, a task of self. Whether you're STS or STO, *all
work is on self*, *all work is subjective*.

> reality. Is is wise to be critical of a
> child's intense self-focus? Is such a focus
> neccessarily a bad thing? Or is it that the
> child needs to go through this phase in order
> to create a strong enough self so that this
> newly-developed self can then start to assist
> other selves in their paths Homeward?

Once we realize everything is catalyst that leads back
to the creator, the need to be critical must dissolve.
The process a child goes through in its development
of self concept is natual and also is most likely a
process of that catalyst it has preincarnatively
chosen for itself. As in, an entity might choose an
incarnation in which the personality is extremely
extroverted in order to experience social catalyst,
for example.

The example of a child's development, initial
self-focus, and eventual discovery of the outside,
larger world is a good analogy of our own development
as souls. It seems logical to me that knowing the
creator/self without (in the context of otherselves)
and knowing the creator/self within is one and the
same act, and are both parts of self discovery.

> Growth in anything is measurable, beit cells,
> trees, animals, humans or any form of
> intelligently-organized energy; therefore,
> the act of self-measurement can be, but it is
> not neccessarily, a selfish act. I think
> that Intelligent Infinity is in a constant
> state of self-measurement when it expresses
> Itself with finitely-organized energy as a
> neccessary means of perceiving how It is
> experiencing Itself.

Quite a profound point, Seth. I guess the crux of the
matter is what qualities you measure the growth of an
entity by.

> Say...if Intelligent Infinity has created
> realities only to experience Itself--perhaps
> this, itself, is a selfish act? Since the
> idea that there is only one Self--this
> question is moot, it seems.

EXACTLY.

> The beauty of these S.T.S. and S.T.O. paths
> is that both ways are viable paths
> Homeward--to a point when the path of Unity
> becomes essential, since Unity is far closer
> to the true Beingness of Intelligent Infinity
> than is separation. I must say...this is a
> brilliant growth system. Intelligent
> Infinity is one smart Dude!

The Ra books were my first exposure to the idea that
both negative and positive paths lead back to the
creator. I'd never considered it before (although a
Course in Miracles hinted at it) but it was an idea
that I immediately latched onto once I understood it.
Once you understand that, the world makes a lot more
sense!

> The advantage of allowing S.T.S. beings to
> graduate to higher densities--up to a point,
> of course--is that such develpments of such
> strongly self-oriented beings create more
> expressed energy, more charge, more polarity
> within defined forms of organized energy,
> thus enables selves of similar organized
> energies to become more intensely energized,
> thus express more aspects of Intelligent
> Infinity within finite forms.

Good point. Also, it is nice for STO entities in 3d
trying to polarize that the advanced 3D negative
beings are removed from a 3D every so often! :-)

Thanks for your enlightening post, Seth.

Jeremy

P.S. Is there anybody out there that does not like
Rush that much? I can't stand the dude's voice!

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Tarzan

11-23-2001, 03:59 AM

<table>
>Brian,
>
>You have asked a perceptive question regarding the act of self-measurement as a possible S.T.S.act. Your question caused a pause for me.Hmmm...
>
>Yes that, in iteslf, the measuring/analizing S.T.S. v.s. S.T.O. for one's own benefit, can be a S.T.S. act--as long as such an act is done within the idea that one is separate from others, thus measuring one's own evolvement regardless of how one's mass reality is more harmonious or less harmonious after one's own contribution to the whole.
>
>I think that the measuring of S.T.S. or S.T.O. is vital in one' path Homeward--otherwise, how is one to measure one's place on one's path objectively? It seems to me that it is rare, if it happens at all, for a being to start out on the path within the S.T.O. context because of the lack of development of self on one's path. It seems to me that it is essential thata self starts out on a path first learning/defining self first, then the "selfishly" developed self reaches the point that one sees one's self as less separate from others, which then starts to transform one's path from S.T.S. to S.T.O.--like the development of a child, who first is helpless(in the sense of taking care of oneself), then goes through a phase of intense self-development learning about self as mirrored by interactions with other selves and moments in one self's life. Such a child, who is mainly concerned with his/her own world, is simply going through a phase of self-development within a finitely-defined reality. Is is wise to be critical of a child's intense self-focus? Is such a focus neccessarily a bad thing? Or is it that the child needs to go through this phase in order to create a strong enough self so that this newly-developed self can then start to assist other selves in their paths Homeward?
>
>Growth in anything is measurable, beit cells, trees, animals, humans or any form of intelligently-organized energy; therefore, the act of self-measurement can be, but it is not neccessarily, a selfish act. I think that Intelligent Infinity is in a constant state of self-measurement when it expresses Itself with finitely-organized energy as a neccessary means of perceiving how It is experiencing Itself. 
>
>Say...if Intelligent Infinity has created realities only to experience Itself--perhaps this, itself, is a selfish act? Since the idea that there is only one Self--this question is moot, it seems. 
>
>The beauty of these S.T.S. and S.T.O. paths is that both ways are viable paths Homeward--to a point when the path of Unity becomes essential, since Unity is far closer to the true Beingness of Intelligent Infinity than is separation. I must say...this is a brilliant growth system. Intelligent Infinity is one smart Dude!
>
>The advantage of allowing S.T.S. beings to graduate to higher densities--up to a point, of course--is that such develpments of such strongly self-oriented beings create more expressed energy, more charge, more polarity within defined forms of organized energy, thus enables selves of similar organized energies to become more intensely energized, thus express moreaspects of Intelligent Infinity within finite forms.
>
>Any act or energy that does not express the essential nature of Intelligent Infinity, such as Unity, has with it its own seeds of destruction, which is why selves who are S.T.S. alwaysdeal with the energies of self-destruction, beit in their own lives or their creations in shared realities, like the Illoonynaughties doing their S.T.S. acts with their attendant mass disharmonies. Notice that phrase "self-destruction"--it is a subtle hint that we're all reall One and not separate.
>
>When one starts to shift towards the S.T.O. orientation, it is important that the S.T.O. rookie honors the paths of all others, including "selfish" beings--yet in so doing, keeps on the path of one's own Unity-oriented choices in one's own life. It seems to me that such a shift is a phased one, like the shifting of one color ina band of light to another, yet it happens in pronounced, short periods of time, compared to the longer periods of time within each band of reality orientation, like the pure color bands of light are wider than the shifting parts.
>
>Speaking of snchros--I never did follow rock much, as I have been a classical music fan all of my life, but Rush is the one band, because of their lyrics, that grabbed me.
>
>Life's a rush, ain't it?
>
>Seth

Crasher2ooo@...

11-23-2001, 08:23 AM

Jeremy, I find your posts very enjoyable to read, and as always they
inspire me to make deeper insights into my own beliefs. Thanks for
that. A few comments i'd like to contribute, love to hear what you
think.

> Well, that's a good point. First of all, we need to
> realize that S.T.O./S.T.S. polarity is something that
> we either are or are not. It's very rare that
> somebody makes a conscious choice to be one way or
> another, according to Ra: usually the decision of
> which path to take is made preincarnatively, resulting
> from the inate biases of each soul.

Im not sure if I agree with this... As I understood it the point of
3D incarnation was to choose whether to follow the STS or STO path to
unity whilst veiled from the conciousness that intelligent infinity
gives you... As I understand ,correct me if im wrong, the veil is
lifted in pre-incarnation time/space, so if the choice of which path
an entity is to follow is made preincanatively then wouldn't that be
an infringment on free will?

An example is given in the Ra/Law of One material where Ra tells us
of two Wanderer's from 5D positive incarnated on Venus (Ra's home
during 3D existence) with the intention of spreading wisdom to try
and raise Venus' 3D harvest. Ra states that these two Wanderer's
ended up becoming highly STS polarised and ended up harvesting to 4D
negative... My point being that if these two entities had pre-
incarnitavely chosen the STO path then they wouldn't have become STS
polarised.

Summing up, i do believe that an entity is given the opportunity to
choose which path they follow during incarnation and it is not
something that is chosen in pre-incarnation. I'd love to hear your
insights.

> Besides, I agree: worrying about whether you are STO
> enough can be done in a context where you only care
> about your own evolution and progress. If you don't
> understand that service to others is part of that, you
> are not integrating STO in the highest manner. In
> fact, pretty much any type of worrying is a fear
> based, STS action that results from a state of
> separation, right?

Agree here, very well put.

> Agreed: I can't see anything wrong with wanting to
> know where you're at. But I also think, unless you
> are highly sensitized to multidimensionality (i.e.
> psychic) you're going to have a hard time measuring
> the degree of vibration a person has. And that's the
> only real objective measure of polarity, I believe.

I think that maybe another method of measuring you own polarity may
be by judging yourself... I used to meditate and think right if I
were in a court room trying to make a case that I was STO polarised
with myself as the judge and joury what would the verdict be... The
logic behind it being that if I could convince myself (because you
cant really lie to yourself) then I could guage if I was on the right
track. It helped me decide, maybe others could use/adapt this method
to enlighten themselves, hope it may be of some use to readers.

However, for about the past 4 months I have conciously noticed that I
can 'read' a persons vibration just by looking at them or even by
saying their name. I use this all the time, whilst walking down the
street simply glancing at people I can tell who has a higer vibration
than others. It becomes very useful when meeting people for the first
time. I would be intersted to know if anyone else experiences this?

> But I don't have a problem personally with not having
> an objective measure of polarity. I'm pretty much
> resigned to the fact that my experience on this plane
> is overwhelmingly subjective - because it is, in large
> part, a task of self. Whether you're STS or STO, *all
> work is on self*, *all work is subjective*.

I agree that fundamentally work in 3D is based on the self but Ra
states that the greatest catalyst for the self to grow is through
interaction with other-selves.

> The Ra books were my first exposure to the idea that
> both negative and positive paths lead back to the
> creator. I'd never considered it before (although a
> Course in Miracles hinted at it) but it was an idea
> that I immediately latched onto once I understood it.
> Once you understand that, the world makes a lot more
> sense!

Couldn't agree more!! When I first realised that truth, all of my
questions about things I belived to be wrong with the world were
answered and that really was a significant point in my spiritual
awakening.

Hope my post may be productive to other readers just as Jeremy's
always have been to me.

Robin

Jeremy Weiland

11-24-2001, 01:24 AM

> that. A few comments i'd like to contribute, love to
> hear what you
> think.

Thanks for your thoughts. Well, here goes (at 3 AM no
less)...

> it the point of
> 3D incarnation was to choose whether to follow the
> STS or STO path to
> unity whilst veiled from the conciousness that
> intelligent infinity
> gives you... As I understand ,correct me if im
> wrong, the veil is
> lifted in pre-incarnation time/space, so if the
> choice of which path
> an entity is to follow is made preincanatively then
> wouldn't that be
> an infringment on free will?

Yeah, this is sort of confusing the way I said it.
Let me explain my understanding of this choice in
detail and see if others agree. The choice about
which *direction* to polarize is done in 3D as a
reaction to incarnative catalyst experienced.
However, what I should have been clearer about is that
Ra says, in most cases, by the time somebody realizes
what path they are on, the choice has already been
made long ago. When I said "preincarnative" I meant
before the current incarnation, not neccessarily
outside of any incarnation. Sorry, should have made
more sense. But pre- or post-incarnative, I don't
consider it a free will infringement just because we
made the decision in a different state of
consciousness than we are now (i.e. in time-space).
Just because we can't understand every aspect of our
unified being doesn't mean that that being is not as
valid a decision maker as we are in our 3D
consciousness - in fact, I would think it would be
more so.

So anyway, you can follow a path, but the choice is
only made when you are finally able to meet that
minimum polarity requirement. That's what I believe
almost everybody now is working on; we've been around
enough times (us non-wanderers) that for most of us
the choice of path has already been made. However,
the *real* choice is when we put our vibrations where
our mouths are, so to speak, and bring our being into
alignment with that path. Maybe this is a way of
showing the dedication neccessary to pursue the work
of the higher dimensions.

> An example is given in the Ra/Law of One material
> where Ra tells us
> of two Wanderer's from 5D positive incarnated on
> Venus (Ra's home
> during 3D existence) with the intention of spreading
> wisdom to try
> and raise Venus' 3D harvest. Ra states that these
> two Wanderer's
> ended up becoming highly STS polarised and ended up
> harvesting to 4D
> negative... My point being that if these two
> entities had pre-
> incarnitavely chosen the STO path then they wouldn't
> have become STS
> polarised.

Yeah, somehow I knew somebody would bring up this
example. Recall also how Ra said that this was a rare
occurance - in fact, I think they mention that this is
the only occurance they are aware of *ever*. I'll
have to look at this part again.

The point is not that the decision cannot be made
consciously, because it can. Rather, it's that it
usually is done in a manner that is below 3D waking
consciousness.

> Summing up, i do believe that an entity is given the
> opportunity to
> choose which path they follow during incarnation and
> it is not
> something that is chosen in pre-incarnation. I'd
> love to hear your
> insights.

According to my understanding: certainly the
opportunity always exists for an entity to grab its
development by the balls and take charge consciously,
but its rare that an entity, especially a
non-wanderer, has the spiritual strength to enable it
to use the intensity of love/light neccessary to
really take conscious charge of their development. In
99.9% of the cases, I believe the higher self does
most of the decision making an planning, with our 3D
selves doing most of the data collection for further
study, if you will.

> I think that maybe another method of measuring you
> own polarity may
> be by judging yourself... I used to meditate and
> think right if I
> were in a court room trying to make a case that I
> was STO polarised
> with myself as the judge and joury what would the
> verdict be... The
> logic behind it being that if I could convince
> myself (because you
> cant really lie to yourself) then I could guage if I
> was on the right
> track. It helped me decide, maybe others could
> use/adapt this method
> to enlighten themselves, hope it may be of some use
> to readers.

Honesty with the self is really vital to proper STO
polarization, I believe. If you are not compeletely
accepting of yourself, how can you expect to accept
others as the self? If you can be truly honest with
yourself, I'd say a good deal of the work has already
been done :-) but I agree, this is one way of
measuring polarity. However, it's kind of subjective,
and I believe the previous poster was talking about an
objective way of ascertaining polarity, which I think
a being's vibratory rate may provide. The idea behind
objectivity is that everyone can look at it and come
to the same conclusion - which will be a vital
component of the harvest.

> However, for about the past 4 months I have
> conciously noticed that I
> can 'read' a persons vibration just by looking at
> them or even by
> saying their name. I use this all the time, whilst
> walking down the
> street simply glancing at people I can tell who has
> a higer vibration
> than others. It becomes very useful when meeting
> people for the first
> time. I would be intersted to know if anyone else
> experiences this?

Like I said, if you are disposed toward psychic
sensitivity, you probably can pick up on this, since
as David says it is all a matter of physics at that
level.

> I agree that fundamentally work in 3D is based on
> the self but Ra
> states that the greatest catalyst for the self to
> grow is through
> interaction with other-selves.

And, truly, realizing that what we both are saying is
the *same thing* is the key. :-) Each realm of
experience - the self and the otherself - provides the
context for the other; they are inseperable.

Thanks for your thoughts, Robin. I'm glad more and
more people are participating in thoughtful
discussion. There are so many angles on this - and
every new perspective shared by a former "lurker"
brings us a new understanding of that "which is always
and ever the same."

Take care,

Jeremy

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