Why lean towards posative ? Why not lean towards balance? [Archive]

adamcaeious

01-16-2008, 05:46 PM

Kranos

01-16-2008, 06:49 PM

I believe if i read the study guide right.
Those that don't qualify for either positive/negative 4th Density still have more lessons to learn. Thus they are moved to a different planet and go through the 3rd Density cycle again.

charles obscure

01-16-2008, 07:41 PM

.i just dont understand something you have stated

...you say that 6th density beings are both "service to self" and "service to other" at the same time...
you also state that ascension for people that fall under the "service to other" category will ascend into the 4d posative..
and those that are "service to other" will ascend to the 4d negative...

but eventually all beings will achieve 6th density....and you state that 6th density beings are both are both "service to self" and "service to other" at the same time...and that they can basically travel at the speed of thought with out the aid of technology...

we 3d humans are currently "service to other" and "service to self"...there is not one human that is 100% one or the other...both extremes make us up...this dualistic nature to our reality is based on this...of course we are not both of these extremes at the same time but rather we flip flop between the two...

so why do we 3d humans have to choose which side we are on? when eventually we will end up as both sides simultansouly as 6D beings...perhaps there is a balanced place inbetween the the 4d posative and the 4d negative....have you considered this possability?

I have considered this...I think ultimately it IS the middle path we do seek, in terms of negative and positive as Cayce suggested in his earlier days but we must consciously decide to seek this middle path in service to others, or in service to self. It sounds paradoxical, the truth appeareth paradox as it is said... Its not like anyone will ever be 100% one or the other, it is not really perfection we are striving for in this incarnate experience I feel. I believe as long as one has consciously chosen one path they will be rewarded for their efforts in time and made to have strong faith and will along their chosen path. Its by flip flopping all over the place without an understanding of the symbolic nature of the daily decisions we make that life will get quite confusing and chaotic. Answers are there for those who seek.

Keep in mind it is stated in the LoO the farther an entity has advanced along EITHER path, the more spiritually aware an they will be and the easier they will find it to switch polarities. I would say feel free to experiment on either path. That is what we are here to do, to experience ourselves after all.

As far as why cant we embrace the one now? I believe it has to do with the creator wanting to know itself in a certain way, and us making preincarnative choices to have certain experiences. I also believe we do not understand what 6th density is at all, so to make too many assumptions about why this or that, only leads to further confusion.

The farther one goes along either path, the more they will be fullfilled and encouraged I feel. The farther Ive gone in service to others the more Ive realized the creator will give us so much more than we can even think or imagine ourselves wanting, if we can just lay down our earthly desires (or fully embrace them at the expense of other selves) and just have faith in ourselves as the creator along our chosen path.

onething

01-16-2008, 11:07 PM

adamcaeious,

You don't really say who you are speaking to - presumably DW. But it occurs to me that there could be a misunderstanding about what service to self means in relation to a negative entity versus a 6d positive entity. It seems to me that service to self as it is used here refers to the person who is selfish, uncompassionate and of little remorse, who is willing or desirous of taking from others and wants to gain enjoyment/riches at the expense of others, even if it means controlling them, imprisoning them, stealing from them, killing them, etc.

Whereas I would imagine that as people move into 4D positive and beyond, that the service to others and self should be balanced and simultaneous. There is some indication that as people enter 4D positive they might engage in self-sacrificing behaviors, which might be appropriate at the time, but ultimately, what you want is for the service to self and others to not be in conflict.

Even now on planet earth, people regularly get good internal feedback when they give to others, and I would say that this is due to the fact that deep down we know or hope we are all one, and that serving others or giving to charity or what have you, decreases the sense of barriers and separation and increases a sense of connection.

STOguy

01-17-2008, 03:18 AM

it sounds to me like you're not getting the whole picture here, and believe me neither do i. But i'll try to respond as i feel to some of the things you said,
"so why do we 3d humans have to choose which side we are on?" - - you don't have to choose anything right now if you don't want to, free will is an important aspect of this universe and many humans probably will do as you say and not choose one or the other by 2012 and will most likely reincarnate as another 3d being, it is only those who wish to ascend that make the choice.

As far as the 6d beings go, i doubt there is much we could comprehend about these types of beings, but i gotta say that the reason they are both STS and STO is probably because they are above all such distinctions and are simply closer to an understanding of oneness, whereas thinking in terms of STS vs. STO is a seperation.

Hope some of that helped. Much Love
-David

adamcaeious

01-17-2008, 05:31 AM

Reply to KRANOS

Yes I have heard that some people will not ascend. But why will some people not ascend? I thought David Wilcock said there will be a massive energetic wormhole phenomenon that will occur that will take up everyone. But yes I have also heard him say some will stay behind on the planet's surface in the 4d negative.

Reply to charles obscure

I have read what you said and I am starting to feel that it maybe dangerous for any person to choose one path over the other. Perhaps flip flopping maybe a foolish choice but perhaps it may be the wisest choice. If you look at the nature of the universe, everything we experience from emotions to matter is always flip flopping or vibrating at a certain frequency. After thinking about this for a few minutes I believe that 6D entities are actually vibrating at such an unimaginably high rate that they might seem to be both positive and negative simultaneously. Based on what the Law of One says, they are not yet completely merged with the One but very close to achieving it. I still feel that it would be a mistake to choose a path. I believe that the important task at hand is to increase our frequency of vibration from our emotions to our sub atomic structure. What do you think of this?

Reply to One Thing

The idea of a 4d positive sounds like heaven to me but it does not seem like a place that makes any sense to me. Just look at the name "4D Positive". Its an unbalanced name. If it was called "4D Balanced" then it would make more sense to me. To me it is important to help others when they are in great need but to go around always trying to do this is unrealistic and I hope people realize this and are not putting themselves under great stress and pressure to act service to others all the time. Service to Other (STO) behaviour seems to connect people but only temporarily because like anything, once you go in one extreme you have to rebalance your self and go into the other extreme. So here we see the see-saw (flip-flop) vibration effect. You act too Service to Self (STS) then you will need to rebalance yourself, or reconnect with the other part of your self which would be helping another person/people, which in reality is you.

Reply to STOguy

Yes thinking in terms of STO and STS is a behaviour that leads to a separation or imbalanced experience. Like I said before I think we have to raise our frequency of STO and STS so high that eventually we rise out of the realm of distinction. I am starting to believe that if one rises out of the 3D that one actually leaves the idea of categories behind. In fact I am starting to remember the idea that we are actually living in both 3D and 4D simultanously and sometime we experience 5D reality in the form of sixth sense expereinces like ESP,astral traveling or any occult ability or ocult technology experience. 3D is the physical and 4D is the dimension of time. I know this does not match up with what is being taught here on this site but, I feel it strong in my gut. Let me know what you feel.

!Thanks for the feedback everyone!

AmelieJolie

01-17-2008, 05:41 AM

DAB

01-17-2008, 05:41 AM

Just Be Nice!

It Will All Be Good!

AmelieJolie

01-17-2008, 05:50 AM

Whoops, I hit the enter button before I'd finished! :p

Basically, I agree with what onething wrote, he/ she put it very nicely.

But as many, I am still very much in the process of trying to work it all out myself.

I assume that the last paragraph of what onething wrote, holds the main key.
Even now on planet earth, people regularly get good internal feedback when they give to others, and I would say that this is due to the fact that deep down we know or hope we are all one, and that serving others or giving to charity or what have you, decreases the sense of barriers and separation and increases a sense of connection.

It's all about Oneness, and learning to love as we are all One.

Make a conscious decision to develop a greater empathy with all "others"; to try and place yourself in their shoes, see through their eyes and feel what they do........and it makes a lot more sense.

Spending time alone in nature is very good too.

I am currently in the position where, although I feel I understand "Oneness" to a large extent, I struggle with how to connect with it in the physical world. This is partly because I have gone towards solitude for much of my time here, because of the heightened sensitivity and feeling unable to relate to others, even though, deep down I real-eyes that all is One.

Peace out!

music=geometry

01-17-2008, 07:42 AM

Great post. I have often wondered this myself, as I was unsure if posting myself in one corner (good, STO) the other (bad, STS) would cause uneeded polarity and more of an ego if not kept in check all the time. For example, feeling high and mighty. We all do it sometimes without thinking, giving judgement, if only in our mind, and even the all emcompassing "we" know something that you don't, so I feel sad for you. Personally I feel that the bad experiences and cycles that I have experienced have helped me grow. I try and walk a Yin and Yang, a balance, and experience as much as possible, as long as free will is not infringed upon, that others are not hurt, and that I learn at least 1 bit of information which can enrich me as a whole.

So that leads me to this question... If the Unified Conciousness or GOD knows all, past present and future, can actions really be described as good or bad? Are they not different degrees of the same thing? (Please see free will again in above paragraph)

Well, onward and upward. Take care everyone.

♫ = ▲

wjbombo@mac.com

01-17-2008, 08:17 AM

I think your point in your original post was regards to what it matters which path you choose when all paths lead to the same place. Well, when you arrive at the "end/beginning/oneness", it doesn't matter. But what experiences you choose to have along the way is up to you. There are infinite paths up the mountain and we are all unique aspects of the one self experiencing all possibilities. The question is, "What experiences do you want to have on your path?" Through free will that's been left up to you.

you don't have to choose anything right now if you don't want to...
-David

I would add to this that you don't have to "consciously" choose your path right now. However, be aware that whatever you focus your attention on grows. You direct energy with your thoughts and you are "choosing" continuously as you move through 3rd density whether you're consciously aware of it or not. The best advice I've ever heard with regards to dealing with finding your path is listening to your heart and trusting your gut.

Peace to you on your journey:)
Will

FooSnik

01-17-2008, 09:36 AM

I understand your confusion completely. I have given this a lot of thought as well and I am not %100 clear but I will add my humble opinion to the discussion too.

Take a Buddhist monk for example. You would think that a master monk would definitely be a positively polarized individual but when you look at their philosophy they say to "just be" which gives the impression of someone who is not choosing one thing or the other. They are not being positive or negative, they are simply existing in peace and attempting to rise above the ups and downs of the dual 3d world. This gives you the feeling of a more neutral being.

but...

What they are doing with their meditation is attempting to attain communion with god (or whatever you want to call the "all there is"). I have never attained it but from what I understand that once you have experienced communion with god you will have a deep felt understanding of the interconnectedness of everything with each other. So once you understand that, then "Service to self" becomes foolishness because it doesn't make any sense to cut off your left hand to feed the right.

I have heard Mr. Wilcock comment on the LoO in which it states not to be passive. He says that it is best to make a decision one way or the other and put your energy towards moving in that direction. Even the passive seeming Buddhist monk is actively seeking enlightenment and there are lessons to be learned from the negative path as well, but, if you are sitting around on your butt drinking a beer and waiting for the fireworks to start then you will accomplish very little if anything.

One more thing. You don't have to be a warrior or crusader of light, fighting off the forces of darkness, to be a positive STO individual. Just simply make the decision to affect the world, yourself included, in a positive loving manner and that is enough. That alone can be easier said than done sometimes.

Cheers!

SuperManny

01-17-2008, 10:47 AM

It is the cyclical nature of Intelligent Infinity. As we to go thru this Grand Cycle of experience of transitioning thru the densities, in order for the Creator to experience all that is, it is necessary to start from One-ness and then gradually experience more and more seperation, all the way to it's most extreme form. Then we gradually transition back into Oneness in order to complete the Grand Cycle. In this way Intelligent Infinity experiences the whole grand spectrum of all possible experiences.

adamcaeious

01-17-2008, 05:45 PM

Bringing up the idea of the Buddhist monk, their neutral behaviour and their attempting to reconnect with God ...well all that reminded me of an experience I had once...I remember a wise man once told me to feel my pain as deeply as possibly, to embrace it completely...At the time my pain was that I could not stand the fact that everything was seperated..the wall from the bed from me from the street from the stars from my neighbors and on and on...

So I just began feeling this pain so much that I started crying intensely and all of a sudden my arms began lifting up off my lap by themselves with out any muscle power or effort on my body's part...the energy was flowing and anti gravity was really happening with in my arms only...it was such an amazing freeing feeling that I will never forget...The Hindu call these spontaneous paranormal/ normal abilities Siddhis and they say they occur to those who are on the path of reconnecting with the Oneness...that night I was doing just that...by focusing on the pain, on the separation so intensely and deeply I was allowed to transcend it and experience the energy of the Oneness, the connection, the telekinesis...

This was years ago and I was treated badly for it by my father...he came home from work and saw me standing and waving my hands through the air with a mystified facial expression...I told him I could feel the energy all around and with in me...He then proceeded to slap me across the face...He never did that to me before and it hurt...So this experience was beautiful but terrifying because most of society is not ready for this and when you start vibrating at a higher level ..people at a lower level will try to bring you back down out of their ignorance...

But yeah these abilities are real and accessible by all who are devout to the path of returning to the One Infinit Source...One need not wait till 2012 to realize these abilities...but just make sure if you do achieve any of these that you are in the right environment and around the right people or else you maybe tossed into the mental hospital...no joke..take care everyone! :)

AmelieJolie

01-17-2008, 07:34 PM

Wow, thanks for sharing that experience, adamcaeious.

I have started to read "The Wanderers Handbook" this evening and, along with this thread, I have been pondering the meaning of "service to self" and service to others" very deeply! I believe I will have more "ramble" to share on this matter soon, but until then, I must get some rest. ;)

I am still unsure about the whole "service to self" and "service to others" thing. They do seem very vague by the definition of the words alone. However, words I suppose are a very limited means of communication and open to endless ways of interpretation.
I haven't read any of the law of one books yet, but I have been gathering snippets of information here and there, so perhaps the answers are somewhere.

I do feel that all the answers are within. ;)
Reading can sometimes help us find the truths already there, but we mustn't forget the advice always given at the beginning- only take what feels right.

charles obscure

01-17-2008, 09:10 PM

Great posts each and everyone of you...

DAB you may have summed it up best with the brevity of your response lol.

so simple, but so true. :)

Adamcaieous if your idea of not choosing a path, but trying to raise your vibration brings you to finding that love within yourself, than that is great. Raising one's vibration can be a tremendous service to others in of itself.

I do understand what you're saying and to tell you the truth if I judged just with my rational mind I think a lot of the same things. But something about the Ra material resonates with me as truth to the farthest depths of my being. The idea of service to others and service to self, is a concept that goes beyond the verbal description of the 'terms'. These terms really just scratch the surface of what it means to live this way. It is the only way however to succinctly describe this way of being, as nothing is really static in this existence. What is considered a service to others for example can drastically change depending on the context we are in. So by analyzing our actions/thoughts/ being in terms of whether we are seeking to benefit the ~all~ or the seperated self is the clearest gauge of where our actions are resonating from. By consciously choosing to follow a higher ideal which is already etched into our unconscious minds (often it is enlightening to step outside the seperated self and try to view our actions from the perspective of an other self). By following this path -- enlightenment, further polarization and a higher vibration will occur as a natural progression, to the point where one can gain wisdom, and understand and see the value in many situations that would normally cause a lot of problems and frustration to one simply 'flip flopping' through. Each moment (to roughly quote Ra) is pregnant with the most magical of possibilities to the far seeing adept.

---

Ra: I am Ra....

'Those truly helpless are those who have not consciously chosen but who repeat patterns without knowledge of the repetition or the meaning of the pattern.'

Magical_Mongoose

01-17-2008, 09:20 PM

Hmm...I think 6D would be both STO and STS because it would actively seek to aid and guide its prior incarnations to hasten its spiritual development and awareness (making it STS, but in a decidedly positive way), but it also aids other entities either actively or as an intentioned byproduct of the guidance and catalysts it provides to its 3D self.
And oh yeah, don't forget to have fun! A sense of humour and openness is the balanced way, with just being yourself and giving your best being the hallmarks of fledgling STO candidates. However, you need to know who you are, and once discovered, the resonance you carry forward and the entities drawn to you shift depending on this awareness you practice within your actions.

onething

01-18-2008, 12:42 AM

adamcaeious,

The idea of a 4d positive sounds like heaven to me but it does not seem like a place that makes any sense to me...To me it is important to help others when they are in great need but to go around always trying to do this is unrealistic

If we were in 4D heaven all the people around would be honest, transparent, empathetic, etc. All around our world, on the other hand, is lies and deception. It can be unrealistic, at least for a nonsaint, to help all the time in this 3D reality because there is so much need.

Then, too, serving others is not always a matter of denying oneself or giving away things. We serve others by not harming them, always according them respect, unconditional acceptance, and by our own positive frequency thought waves.

There is nothing wrong with serving oneself, if it is not done at the expense of others. What will cause some people to graduate to 4d negative is that they are doing such things as deliberately lying to the public in order to get more money even tho people will die - that sort of thing. (thinking of pharmaceutical companies here).

4D heaven is in some way a graduation from the intense duality that we have here. Perhaps you are used to it and can't picture it differently, but all the enlightenment traditions talk about learning to perceive nondually.

You may be somewhat right tho, in calling it unbalanced, since there is the 4D negative in existence as well, but they are separated.

It would help me a lot in my understanding if I knew more about 4 and 5D negative. Does anyone know if Ra spoke much about it? I have some trouble picturing it.

Amelijolie,

I am currently in the position where, although I feel I understand "Oneness" to a large extent, I struggle with how to connect with it in the physical world. This is partly because I have gone towards solitude for much of my time here, because of the heightened sensitivity and feeling unable to relate to others, even though, deep down I real-eyes that all is One.

One trick the hindus use is to imagine that the whole world is like an artist's little diorama in which everything is made of gold. That is, the material the artist used was gold so she fashioned little gold houses, trees, animals, etc. This is because everything arises out of one simple substance and manifests in many different ways by different combinations and vibrations.

In my understanding, it isn't simply that we are all one and that's it - but rather that we are simultaneously the one and the many.

Do you have as much trouble relating to others here as you do in real life? By the way, I am a she.

music = gemoetry

can actions really be described as good or bad? Are they not different degrees of the same thing?

Good question! But while evil is also contained within God and is part of the plan or the allowing, I think it is not fundamentally existing in its own right, but rather is a deviation from the default which is the good. And why is the good to be called good? Because it is that which promotes life, life is God, and God is existence.

adamcaeious

01-18-2008, 04:59 AM

charles obscure

01-18-2008, 10:31 AM

Just wanted to add another thought to consider...

By seeing all as an extension of our own body an understanding can be made:

that service to others, is in fact service to self in the broader sense.

Service to others is service to self and service to self is also to serve the all.

An argument could be made however that service to others in the literal sense is more efficient.

So why choose? Because the energy can only be directly harnessed in one direction at a time. By not consciously choosing to go one way, energy is consistently lost and then gained and then lost, gained etc. It is like spinning your wheels. Enlightenment will be hard to find this way as very little progress will be made in either direction before an opposing force brings it back ...

A certain amount of energy is gained simply by making the choice, because a choice either way will entail a certain amount of self sacrifice. Through self sacrifice comes new life. This is a necessary function of the choice, self sacrifice is a reaffirmation of the highest committment of the faith to the higher self.

AmelieJolie

01-18-2008, 12:21 PM

Interesting. I understand that being deliberately deceptive toward people just to get money or attention is Service-to-Self (STS) and that communicating and treating people with positive thoughts is Service-to-Other (STO).

That's what I have been wondering.
I've also been pondering self-sacrifice and whether or not the term "STO" is trying to encourage it or not, and whether or not self-sacrifice is always a positive thing. I decided that although it may be necessary sometimes, it isn't always a positive thing. Life is all about finding balance- I think we see this message in nature herself.

In my mind, balance is to love yourself, but love others as you love yourself, being prepared to put the needs of others first sometimes, but not to the extent that you neglect your own needs.

Just my opinion- if anybody has any further thoughts to add, I am interested to hear them.

Onething,
One trick the hindus use is to imagine that the whole world is like an artist's little diorama in which everything is made of gold. That is, the material the artist used was gold so she fashioned little gold houses, trees, animals, etc. This is because everything arises out of one simple substance and manifests in many different ways by different combinations and vibrations.

In my understanding, it isn't simply that we are all one and that's it - but rather that we are simultaneously the one and the many.

Do you have as much trouble relating to others here as you do in real life? By the way, I am a she.

An interesting idea- the Hindu concept.

And to answer your question- no, I guess I don't have any difficulty relating to others online than I do physically, I just wish that I could teleport myself wherever I wanted to be, and be in the company of a friend no matter where they may be geographically! I've always enjoyed communication via the written or typed word, but in a way I think it's far more wonderful to get to talk to someone you share a wavelength with face to face. My problem is, having been a single mum for a while and various other circumstances, it's actually been very hard to get the time or opportunity to get out and meet people, and most of the time I feel as if I'm from another planet anyway......Ah well. But I think one can always find something in another in which they can relate to. ;)

charles obscure

01-18-2008, 01:12 PM

Interesting. I understand that being deliberately deceptive toward people just to get money or attention is Service-to-Self (STS) and that communicating and treating people with positive thoughts is Service-to-Other (STO).

I just do not understand why a separation must occur when people ascend into the so-called 4th density.
Why do some go to the 4D positive and some to the 4D negative?
Why is this process necessary when all beings will become 6D anyways?

To me this sounds like a step that does not make much logical sense. Perhaps someone can shed light on this.

To me the 4D positive is a reality in which all people are living with syncronicity happening to them and around them at every moment of their experience. No one fears anything there. Everyone knows each other's thoughts and intentions. Paranormal abilities like instant healing, moving through matter, levitation, shape shifting, flying, invisibility, etc. are common place.

And 4D negative would be a reality in which everyone was on their own, alone. And no one could trust eachother and if you come into the presence of another person then the only option you would have is to kill or be killed. And here you would have all the paranormal powers too.

Ok that is my understanding of the 4D positive and negative.

Perhaps some people reading this post can explain their understanding of 4D positive and also what 4D negative might be like.

Personally I like the name of David Wilcock's movie called "Convergence". Its simple and makes more sense to me then this 4D + and 4D - theory. Everything converging into Oneness. Positive and negative converging into one.

This is funny because almost everything David teaches is based off the Ra material teachings. David Wilcock teachings = the 4d + and 4d - teachings, these are not two seperate theories. 'Convergence' is what will happen, but there is much to learn about both the light and darkness before we will be ready to converge in 6d. Everything is not learned in 3d. But what really happens in 4th, 5th, 6th is not something we can rationally explain or understand at this time. At a certain point it is wise to just trust your intuition, it will guide you. The explanations we have of 4 and 5d are incredibly crude, it is wise to accept that we do not understand what we are talking about when referencing these densities, therefore why critisize that which you know virtually nothing about?

estopatitiana

01-18-2008, 08:50 PM

jeeze loiuse guys, this is great! probably some of the most productive and intense discussion ive heard in a while. I read about 80% of all the posts and just had to say some stuff. Because ive been struggling with the whole service to others thing and kept thinking that there was some formula to it, but after reading this i realized that yes! Just being yourself can affect people in a positive manner, just look at Steve Irwin.

And sometimes actions that seem to only be service to self can affect people in a service to others way profoundly. If anyone has seen Into the Wild, his long journey away from his family and being a drifter(alone) ended up being an amazing and touching motion picture and book.
Oh, and being around nature is a must, at least for me, it has helped me immeasurably, and i cant live without it.
adamcaeiouse, that was a beautiful story, thats good food for thought

my brother and i were talking about this, but you can do service to others activities and they can deep down only be for your own gain, based on your perception or thoughts

for example, your working on a car, if your sto you might concioussly or subconcioussly say in your head, im glad that i can make this persons life easier by providing this service

if your sts, you might think man im smart, i love to exersice my knowledge and problem solving skills

And as for whoever talked about swinging back and forth and having to rebalance yourself between positive and negative, that makes sense to me, unfortunatly.
I will do great deeds for my parents and others for a wile then it seems like out of nowhere i will be the most cruel person on the planet, and then i feel terrible and have to redeem myself, this has only been happening lately. I dont know why really. I use to never really have this issue.
ive realized though that you shouldnt really try to police all your actions, and just focus on "being" rather than "doing" In america at least, we want immediate results, no patince whatsoever, i think that is one of my greatest lessons to learn.

Does anyone ever try to arrange meetings on this forum?

onething

01-18-2008, 10:07 PM

I just do not understand why a separation must occur when people ascend into the so-called 4th density.
Why do some go to the 4D positive and some to the 4D negative?
Why is this process necessary when all beings will become 6D anyways?

I think that as people progress spiritually their perception opens up. You get to the point that the lies and deceptions just don't hold you anymore. This all hinges on there being real progress in people's spiritual development. What would be the point of spinning our wheels endlessly in this ridiculous situation we are in? So what happens is that the positive and negative types can't hide from each other anymore. The way things work now, for the most part, people and whole groups and nations are very gullible. We don't know good from bad, trustworthy from charlatan. Over and over.
And in some way that I haven't figured out yet, they naturally separate.

Certainly it is true that you can't have a heaven if the bad guys are there because it would be ruined. The rejoining in 6th density would again be the natural culmination of growth in which separation was no longer the way things work.

To me the 4D positive is a reality in which all people are living with syncronicity happening to them and around them at every moment of their experience. No one fears anything there. Everyone knows each other's thoughts and intentions. Paranormal abilities like instant healing, moving through matter, levitation, shape shifting, flying, invisibility, etc. are common place.

So how's a liar or car thief to make a living?

adamcaeious

01-19-2008, 02:47 AM

yes i agree that when referring to the higher densities that we do not have a full on grasp since we are not in them and our and we are not evolved enough to accurately describe them.

i also feel it is important to train ourselves to be ready for this event in a few different ways. astral travel or out of body experiences is something i feel can benefit everyone in understanding what the higher density will be like. and to stay disciplined and keep to it.

any other suggestions?

SuperManny

01-19-2008, 07:52 PM

And as for whoever talked about swinging back and forth and having to rebalance yourself between positive and negative, that makes sense to me, unfortunatly.
I will do great deeds for my parents and others for a wile then it seems like out of nowhere i will be the most cruel person on the planet, and then i feel terrible and have to redeem myself, this has only been happening lately. I dont know why really.
Well according to Ra that's been one of the main problems with 3D earth. People just aren't polarized enough to make the harvest and ascend, so this will be everybody's last chance. If you don't make it this time you'll have to leave earth and find another 3D planet 'cause earth's going 4D+. Personally, I think it's possible that another 3D earth may exist or be created in some parallel reality, but Ra does not say that.

Ra says, "The polarity of your dimension must be internalized."
I use to never really have this issue.Does anyone ever try to arrange meetings on this forum?
Yes, there was one last summer... in Nashville, I think, or was it Asheville.:confused:

onething

01-22-2008, 09:35 PM

I could possibly make it to Asheville...

Art

01-23-2008, 12:29 PM

I had put something out there to try and arrange a meeting in Asheville, NC sometime this year and the responses were scattered. Unfortunately, I lack the abilities at this time to put something together that will knock someone's socks off, but would be willing to help out.

On the other hand, individuals getting together for small, informal, and improptu gatherings is a good thing, so if anyone wants to try and schedule a small get-together (in the Southeastern US), I'd be interested...

Hopefully the members will be able to make it to LA for the Consciousness Expo thingamabobber - if I had the chance I'd go!

Art

litllady

01-23-2008, 11:25 PM

Thanks to all who have commented on this thread. Its been a great deep read!

I kept hearing the issue of *why does there need to be separation*-especially, if according to the ideas that many are trying to follow here, believe that 6d will bring the 2 polarities back together. As always, Ill state, these are my opinions, not facts of course. So, on I go with this thought.

In creation, if we go back to the true origin of creation, there was separation. Separation is what caused the ability to create. Now, again, this is just what I think. It is late, I have alot of ideas for links running through my mind, mabey Ill relate some links to this idea tomorrow. But I wanted to put this out there to see what others feel about this.
I see it-as the creator, being one with himself, again and again, over and over, to start a new love, a new knowing of himself every time, to create in his own image, the effect of this cause is separation. This of course, brought chaos. So many old tales try to explain why we have chaos, suffering, ect.... So far, to me, everything seems to fit some formula in some way or another.
We will have to go through the same kind of thing in some point or another as the creator. We will have to separate. I see the 6d not being of a flip flop kinda thing, I see the 6d where the 2 that have had to separate, are able to realign again, to experience true balance. We really know nothing here about true balance, how can we, we have physical bodies to tend to, we have lives we MUST live. This is a very hard thing to balance here on earth as we know it. I think right now, we do need to TRY to choose a majority in ourself. Are we MORE one way then the other. Is our intentions with good meaning? It is very hard to always lead this kind of life. BUT, the more you do it, the more positive feedback of love you receive, and this helps you grow and then being service to others becomes more natural then forceful for some. Some, just always have felt the pain and sorrow of others, they cant help it. Some seems more sensitive to SEEING the need for the ONENESS to become a real thing.

Can anyone relate to this feeling of the NEED for the separation in 4d. As well as the NEED for the balance that will take place in the 6d?

Peace to all,
Lynette

onething

01-24-2008, 07:59 PM

Hi Art,

I live in North Carolina. I googled the consciousness expo but didn't really get anything definitive. My son lives in LA area and might like to go.

Darak

01-25-2008, 07:27 AM

OK I just wanted to be sure I had an understadning of what I read in the Ra material. I think many of the posts here confirm what I want to say but feedback is always nice.

Basically there are major lessons to be learned in each density, that without an understanding of these lessons, existence in the next density would be impossible.

We are in 3D now, many of us having come from 2D at some point in the past after having successfully learned Self Awareness. We can see how it is possible to learn this lesson as a 2D creature using human pets as a good example, some of whom seem ready for a 3D existence after having been around us 3D beings.

In 3D we are trying to learn to choose a path, STO or STS. We pre-incarnitavely try to set ourselves up to experience the right catalyst to push us down one path or another. 3D seems chock full of catalyst, everything we think and do polarizes us one way or another. The point of making a choice one way or another is to successfully exist in a 4D environment where that will either be STS oriented or STO oriented. Actions in 3D must be more than 51% STO or 99% STS in order to reach the next level. Not choosing means repeating experieences until a choice is made or understanding is reached.

From here on out it gets tricky because we can't fully understand what the experiences beyond 3D are like while hanging out here in 3D. But basically the point of 4D is to learn the lessons of Love, wether of self or of others, then in 5D taking that Love and balancing it with Wisdom, but towards the end of 5D negative or STS it is realized that in order to truly balance Love and Light you have to switch back to the other side.

This is what I got out of it, and why we had to choose a path. What I also got out of this was that the whole reason this setup exists in the first place is because that is what the Logos has chosen as a design plan. The design leans towards a bias of making the choice of STO but we do have the free will to choose the other path, arguably more difficult and longer but a path that should be epxerienced collectively in order for the Creator to truly experience Creation fully.

I think it was DW that gave us the metaphor of electrons in an atom. An electron can't move to a higher more energetic valence unless it has gathered enough energy, momentum. Same for us, we can't move to higher density unless we have gathered enough spiritual energy either one way or another (STS or STO).

I also would point out I think it was DW who said somewhere we don't necessarily have to consciously be aware of the choice we made, as long as we are acting towards polarizing towards it.

OK that is just my take on it and please if anything doesn't resonate with you just ignore it.

Art

01-25-2008, 09:27 AM

Hi Art,

I live in North Carolina. I googled the consciousness expo but didn't really get anything definitive. My son lives in LA area and might like to go.

Cool! If the opportunity arises I'll announce something (I've got a full plate this Spring though).

I likely have misquoted the name of the Expo - it was recently mentioned in one of David's blogs...

[FYI: url is consciouslifeexpo.com and there are tons of things to do there!]

MarkM

01-28-2008, 06:41 PM

Hi Darak, nice to hear from you.

I think you've made a pretty good synopsis of much of what Ra was communicating.

Growing up as a soul throughout our 3D sojourn is a little like growing up as a child in our parents' home; much learning and preparation, leading up to the point where we're ready to 'transcend' the nest and accept responsibility for making our life's choices, and the challenge of making a life for ourselves in the 'adult' world.

Those who begin to polarize, whether they are consciously aware of doing so or not, are like adolescent college sophomores, holding in hand a diploma that symbolizes not only their mastery of their chosen subjects, but their readiness to take all the knowledge and lessons learned and assimilated since birth and 'take it up a notch'.

They then may begin to act as a fully contributing member of society, able to offer the fruits of the lessons learned.

Those who polarize gradually come to the view that much of what happens in the 3D world is, in a manner of view, merely drills that we have put ourselves through for the purpose of practising and refining our ability to see that the only true reality here is ourselves (ourself), in an infinite variety of experience and expression.

During a fire drill, there is no real fire, although we may not know this when the alarm goes off. One polarizing realizes that for all the suffering, misery and death in the world, the soul passes through all this ultimately unscathed.

She knows that these are transient, relativistic issues of no permanence, aside from the soul lessons gained.

She learns that she can fully accept any condition in the world with guiltless gratitude, knowing they exist only for her own becoming.

In the 'holodeck' of Star Trek, the players in a program become fully involved in a program, and if the program is aborted, they stand around sheepishly in empty space, remembering suddenly it was an illusory environment.

All matter and energy is alive, and contains in each part of itself the full essence of the creator. The stones are full of life. The buildings, roads, cities and factories are all made of life, as are the mountains, forests, lakes, animals and insects. All life may potentially form the raw materials of the transient world we build for ourselves.

All these things have, in infinite diversity, an apparent outer form which we can mold and adapt to our perceived needs, although their apparent reality is secondary to the greater reality. Like a child's Lego set, these things of outer reality can be combined in any form, then broken down again and recombined into a new form.

The greater reality is perceived by those who become aware of the one life that constitutes all beings in their infinite outer form. For there is only one life that constitutes them all; and this life is you.

You become aware that all this diversity is one life, and that to love any part of it more than any other is folly, and indeed not possible, ultimately.

It is through the principle of love that the universe can have such a self organizing and completely inter-relating nature.

And so, life/love dances it's dance of diversity, learning about itself through it's diaspora through the all-there-is, as though turning itself inside out.

Making infinity from One - increasing it's love/wisdom/power, and then calling itself upward and into itself, as successive waves of enlightening life move from oneness out into the mystery and diversity and back to oneness, enriching itself, perhaps to start again in a bigger experiment.

This is just another limited, distorted take on reality; from our perspective, it can only be thus!;)

-Mark

AmelieJolie

02-16-2008, 10:40 AM

billybobbutterball

02-16-2008, 06:37 PM

SNIP ...but eventually all beings will achieve 6th density....and you state that 6th density beings are both are both "service to self" and "service to other" at the same time...and that they can basically travel at the speed of thought with out the aid of technology...

We 3d humans are currently "service to other" and "service to self"...there is not one human that is 100% one or the other...both extremes make us up...this dualistic nature to our reality is based on this...of course we are not both of these extremes at the same time but rather we flip flop between the two...

so why do we 3d humans have to choose which side we are on? when eventually we will end up as both sides simultaneously as 6D beings...perhaps there is a balanced place in-between the 4d positive and the 4d negative....have you considered this possibility?

SNIP

## A.J. says: I must say I agree with you.

Otherwise we create a state of disharmony within ourselves, which will then spread to others.

## Unsolicited opinions etc, in response to above comments follow.

billybobbutterball speaks with unforked tongue

Denizens in higher 6th density levels --such as The Ra's location -- is essentially non-polarized (The One Creator is not polarized) A highly developed negative entity can enter the lower 6th, but soon runs into a spiritual wall. All beings have a tremendous impulse to keep advancing, so that means the entity keeps bumping its head on the ceiling. What finally happens is that he/she finally wises up, and by using the accumulated skills and power over a vast number of centuries, can and does switch polarity. (A feat that could not be accomplished as easily, if at all, early on)

Question “Why do we have to choose one side or the other when we will eventually end up as both side in the 6th?” Well, I believe there is a subtle but important distinction between balancing two distortions VS the state of being without distortion whatsoever --Its not a case of having 5 tons of weight on one side of the teeter-totter and 5 tons on the other, but more on the concept of no weight -- without any consequential inertial mass being involved.

There is unceasing warfare between the 4 density positive and the 4th negative. There is no continuing balance to be found between the two at that level. The warfare does seem to take some strange twists and turns in that often times the contact ends before it even starts since it immediately results in a so-called "Mexican standoff"-- what happens is that both sides end up neutralizing each other -- with both forced to retreat in impotent confusion and frustration. In a certain way it is rather funny scenario, somewhat like ferocious porcupines Vs loving Tar Babys. (I think that Lawii would agree with a grin)

About our job of existence here: "It is not the purpose of those incarnating in 3rd density to be perfect, right, or infallible . Surprising? (This is a paraphrase from a channeling at LLResearch ...difficult to find)

I have the sense that in the DC discussion group many have a problem in grasping or digesting one of the primary reasons why we are here on planet earth. :confused:

In fulfilling and following the LOGO'S plan for Earth we are SUPPOSED and expected to make mistakes, and our actions to be effected by mistakes whatever...even BIG hairy ONES! The main thrust is for individual's to determine -- by their 'free will' (i.e.,one's abiding inclination, helped along here and there by little jolts of sheer caprice) their overriding preference in polarity -- negative or positive. Some entities just can't tolerate goody two-shoes positivism...gives them emotional diabetes. In distress such entities send out a psychic call for help, calling for something to get their juices moving... It is a cosmic law that the answer will come. Sometimes in Spades! (You might recall that this happened on The Ra's home planet of quite positive Venus)

Hang on! End coming quick!

Please to keep in mind that we are here in this density all covered up and confused by a personality shell -- and hey! This shell is not really who we are. We shouldn't get too fond of it -- or too angry over its gaffes either. Have mercy not only on others but also include ourselves! Also keep in mind that although we are in the Third density we are often intimately wrapped up in connection with extended social memory soul groups...some groups representing the combined consciousness of a whole planet! Also, according the peculiar aberrations of time, we also have our future selves looking back and keeping tabs on us. They don’t know all our coming adventures, but they do know with absolute certainty that we will eventually end up where they are. (we better!) Weird, but said to be true.

My very best to determined reader’s who managed to get down this far :)
Please understand that to save time and space, I didn’t make constant admission of my lack of having certain knowledge at every turn of the text. Also I spared you numerous warnings that I invariable make mistakes in my writings that I seriously writhe over later :o

Salutations to all! Billybobbuttersphere

onething

02-16-2008, 08:14 PM

so why do we 3d humans have to choose which side we are on? when eventually we will end up as both sides simultaneously as 6D beings

Well now, I would guess that as 6D beings it will be quite different than it is here in 3D. So first of all, it is necessary to experience the adventures along the way. We might as well say, since we are all going to end up as adults anyway, why be babies and have a childhood? It's been my opinion for some time that we are not so much real souls from the beginning, but soul-stuff in the making, souls-becoming, and we are in the process of becoming real. What we're made of is the sum of our experiences and our reactions and decisions about those experiences. Slowly we become a real character, an individual entity.

Second of all, the problems with the selfishness that we have here in 3D is that we are of limited perception, filled with fear which makes us grasping and greedy, and so we take advantage of others for our own benefit, not really seeing others as real, but more like inanimate objects. The lesson that takes us into 4D pos readiness, in my current opinion, has a lot to do with finally seeing, I mean seeing, others as real.

You know, all the jokes re "It's all about me" is a lighthearted humor about the fact that we are all stuck in exactly that feeling; intellectually we know it isn't true, but our ego-selves can't see it.

However, I don't quite know what graduation into 4D negative, or 5D negative requires.

AmelieJolie

02-16-2008, 08:33 PM

onething

02-16-2008, 10:55 PM

Amelie,

Could it be that this reality/ dimension is in fact "The Devil's Playground"?

Oh! If you only knew!!! I just posted this very thing on the Mayans thread (not approved yet).

Yes, yes it is. I don't know whether we were tricked into falling but it is almost certainly true that we are kept in our state of darkness, we are being used, foul play, oh yes.

I often think, that if humans could only know how everything was interconnected by each of us having, for example, the power of empathic telepathy, then we wouldn't see evil as we know it on our planet. We wouldn't be able to bear the idea of torturing others because we would see them as part of ourselves.

Yes, that would sort of let the cat out of the bag, wouldn't it. Why, we might as well go on to 4D positive then, mightn't we?
In fact, I think this might be the reason that 4d positive and negative aren't together - because the 4d negatives can no longer fool the positives so they have no way to manipulate and control them. And the positives are in 'heaven' precisely because of the absence of entities of ill will.

I tell ya, it's the only way to relax!

But it seems the 4 and 5 d negatives do have more vision, are not veiled or not so completely veiled, and yet choose the negative path. This is a puzzle, and I suspect that there has to be some sort of ignorance lurking behind it.

The negative realms are full of hierarchy and power, but without the threat of physical death or pain, I do not understand that aspect of it.

Makram Abu-Shakra

02-16-2008, 11:29 PM

Just wanted to add to the discussion by sharing this quote from Session 78, my emphasis added:

"I am Ra. The purpose of polarity is to develop the potential to do work. This is the great characteristic of those, shall we say, experiments which have evolved since the concept of The Choice was appreciated. Work is done far more efficiently and with greater purity, intensity, and variety by the voluntary searching of mind/body/spirit complexes for the lessons of third and fourth densities. The action of fifth density is viewed in space/time the same with or without polarity. However, viewed in time/space, the experiences of wisdom are greatly enlarged and deepened due, again, to the voluntary nature of polarized mind/body/spirit action."

Fourth density is the density of unconditional love. It is logical that work in that density requires a minimum degree of positive (or negative) polarization, a minimum degree of the propensity towards serving others (or self). Otherwise, it's like enrolling in a music school when you have no interest in music.

billybobbutterball

02-17-2008, 01:35 AM

BBB, and others........

You seem to have studied the LoO quite a bit.

Please tell me, according to this information-

Could it be that this reality/ dimension is in fact "The Devil's Playground"?

Could it be, that in a way, we were tricked into coming here- and we came here because we were curious and had no understanding of the implications of "falling"?

##

Oh, AJ, you little debbil, you never give up do you! Always coming up with some sticky ones! 3D, the Devil's playground? Depends. Just how you define, "The Devil"? Satan? Please do a search on LLResearch.org to dig out some interesting angles (Satan is a thought form ) Lucifer, the light bringer? With your Mormon background you should remember the lessons concerning the vital need for humans to get kicked out of the Garden of Eden...(In a rough sense, probably the only LDS doctrine I can resonate with.)

There is a work recommended on the DC reading list that has a view with some ethereral sense of the scenario you mentioned above...In this case elemental "spirits" were enticed and 'tricked' into becoming entangled with the world of matter, which would be 2D and 3D. In a sense the exploratory fooling around of the elementals caused changes in them that prevented a return to an Edenesque realm. I have mentioned this work several times before and described it in glowing terms as being much like a romanticised version of the Ra Material. It is the, 'The Third Millenium' by Ken Carey (Ken has several books, but this is the one that fits and fleshes out the bare bones of Ra ):rolleyes: But ya gotta read it twice ..too much gety by on the first go-around. Did I mention that it is really, really good?

AJ says: I often think, that if humans could only know how everything was interconnected by each of us having, for example, the power of empathic telepathy, then we wouldn't see evil as we know it on our planet. We wouldn't be able to bare the idea of torturing others because we would see them as part of ourselves.

Hey! What world are you describing here!? Look, other Logi tried Garden of Eden scenarios for their planets and it was b-o-r-i-ng yielding measly results. The lab rats took forever to make any progress. At the rate they were advancing it seemed that the universe might run down and cycle out before they got to first base (I'm exagerating ) FINALLY, when they got somewhat along the path they started to perk up and ended up zipping thourgh the last densities. The trouble was they arrived like a bunch of poor relatives -- out of money, no belongings and worst of all, no interesting storys.

I'm writing too much. I've got just enough energy left to remark that your following observation at the bottom relies on too many wild assumptions. Now if you mean by Luciferion, The Anunnaki and their supposed stripping away of 10 DNA strands that's another kettle of fish..or squid, whatever. ;)

Later, and thanks, Billybobbutterbattered

AJ says:
What if it suits the requirements of the beings of this "Luciferian Consciousness" that we don't have the same power of empathic telepathy as we may have once had.......because it relies on all forms of suffering and negativity for its very energy, having separated itself from the one infinite Source?

I have been reflecting on this tonight, I felt suddenly that I gained some insighThet. This is just part of it. AJ
__________________

AmelieJolie

02-17-2008, 06:11 AM

Onething,
I'm glad someone understands. :o

BBB,
Yes, I know what the Mormons and others believe, but I don't agree with it. Likewise, I don't agree that "boredom" is a good enough reason for beings to have fallen into incarnation, where exists beauty still, but such profound cruelty also. Some of the things which are allowed to go on here on Earth are just too horrible, and I feel that we were probably warned but because we were curios, and didn't understand, we became entangled.

I feel that we were already perfect. I don't feel we really needed to "know evil". Perhaps that is why the word itself contains another word- "lie". Live, evil= lie.
I don't think its possible for us to imagine how beautiful things once were when we were all One or to speculate that we were simply "bored". However, I'm sure curiosity was, as it still is, a big part of who we were and are.

I just hope that in time......we will re-balance the universe again.

Likewise, I am humble enough to admit that there could be a part of the "jigsaw" that I haven't gained insight on yet. ;)
But I feel I am doing the right thing in questioning everything.

There is a work recommended on the DC reading list that has a view with some ethereral sense of the scenario you mentioned above...In this case elemental "spirits" were enticed and 'tricked' into becoming entangled with the world of matter, which would be 2D and 3D. In a sense the exploratory fooling around of the elementals caused changes in them that prevented a return to an Edenesque realm. I have mentioned this work several times before and described it in glowing terms as being much like a romanticised version of the Ra Material. It is the, 'The Third Millenium' by Ken Carey (Ken has several books, but this is the one that fits and fleshes out the bare bones of Ra ) But ya gotta read it twice ..too much gety by on the first go-around. Did I mention that it is really, really good?
Thanks. I will look into that. :)

I wrote a lot of thoughts down last night on what I feel could have happened to us and how we became entangled- it will be interesting to see if these other sources say similar things to what came to my mind last night.

AmelieJolie

02-17-2008, 06:44 AM

From BBB
There is unceasing warfare between the 4 density positive and the 4th negative. There is no continuing balance to be found between the two at that level.

So, to be fair and get back to the original question on this thread, perhaps this is why it is so important, while we are here, to focus on ways to spread peace and help plant seeds of awakening through example and many other ways, that all is One, we are not separate,
and together we can heal.

I think, we shouldn't worry about healing the entire world, but the little that we can do really does count.
If everyone did that..........

AmelieJolie

02-17-2008, 06:45 AM

I love the movie "Pay It Forward". ;)

Perhaps this, the story of the movie, is why we ought to focus on the "positive path".

soup

02-17-2008, 04:47 PM

From my experience, a focus on the positive path can effectively displace the inferior states of being that one can commonly "fall into" by activities directed otherwise. There seems a principle of trade-off at work. A simple example seems the use of "word". That a careful use of word can invoke and promote and foster positive behaviors.

In extremely large energetic groups, the energetic reaction of such positive use of "word" can be easily discerned as distinct from "less than positive" use of "word." From this exaggeration, there seems the opportunity for one to polarize more positive for the tradeoff becomes apparent: would one prefer a positive reaction or a less than positive reaction?

soup

billybobbutterball

02-18-2008, 07:47 PM

I feel that we were already perfect. I don't feel we really needed to "know evil". Perhaps that is why the word itself contains another word- "lie". Live, evil= lie.
I don't think its possible for us to imagine how beautiful things once were when we were all One or to speculate that we were simply "bored". However, I'm sure curiosity was, as it still is, a big part of who we were and are.

Amelie, WE WERE NOT PERFECT! ... unless of course you consider a couple of hydrogen molecules bounding around, bouncing off each other, as being more perfect and delightsome, and more spiritually evolved when compared to a high-level human being at any level all the way up.

What is going on here? Please try this on for size:

The One Creator is in fact the Cosmos...all apparent space is actually stuffed full of godly intelligent infinity. The (finite) Cosmos is a distortion of the one (infinite) Creator, who is using ways and means to explore ALL the possibilities of intelligent infinity as expressed in the Comos as can be manifested in this multi-dimensional Cosmos.

Nothing is what it appears to be. Matter doesn't exist as we perceive it. The apparent structure of matter is imaged by vibrational waves -- going in and out, and where they are focused is apparent matter.. An apparent molecule is "created" by expanding and retreating standing waves that instantly REACH out to infinity...much like ripples from a pebble tossed into a pond EXCEPT in the the former macro case the waves interact in all densities through every aspect of the ENTIRE created cosmos. EVERYTHING whatsoever IS ALL TIED TOGETHER INSTANTLY!!! The smallest aspect lives--actions and thoughts- are instantly reflected and have an effect EVERYWHERE! Scary!

Our purpose is that of being the "ways and means" army of explorers whose jobs are to disclose EVERY potential possibility in this Cosmos. WE are The one creator, but stepped down to a multitude of micro-sized aspects of 'God' sent out to check things out, make it ours, then eventually report back.

The implications of this view is stunning. And you think you want to go back to the beginning when things were supposedly better? Our job is not to get back to the conditions obtaining in the supposed Garden of Eden. There is nothing really there to go back to... does the baby want to go back to the womb that he/she finally outgrew? It would be a major dissapointment if he/she could do it. (featured on you tube: Hey! Where the hell is the TV? My Blue Tooth? This ain't heaven, its HELL! Let me OUTTA HERE! :p

Amelie, you gotta kick your viewpoint upstairs a few stories. Please consider the bigger picture. This 3D world is not the illusion we are going to stay stuck in. Gaia is getting ready to move up -- unless she has decided instead to go back to the gaseous state of her own memory of Eden:rolleyes: The ruling elite of the planet are getting panicked, Their "world" is coming apart at the seams. Every thing seems to be going to hell...but for some maybe heaven, 4th grade?

As the Chinese sage would say: "May you live in interesting times!"

billybobbutterball, the Rocky Mountain trailer hermit guru:p

PS don't forget, AJ Your loving care, every thought and vibration is going out... everywhere.:)

Note: Divine Cosmos does not endorse the thoughts and opinions stated above, and is in no manner responsible for the errors abounding therein, etc.

soup

02-19-2008, 07:32 AM

...In a sense the exploratory fooling around of the elementals caused changes in them that prevented a return to an Edenesque realm...

This may relate to the description, "brothers and sisters of sorrow" - i.e. wanderers who get entangled somehow in a way that distracts them from living aligned to some incarnational intent, the sorrow of that.

It may be that an upward striving, as following a desire "to go towards the light", is more easily accomplished; that for some reason or another they may be able to become untangled easier and have a greater tolerance which allows them to follow that desire more efficiently, though difficult to generalize...

Alternately, there's the wanderers drawn to aid in lifting the sorrow, with intent of easing it somehow. I wonder if the extent of sorrow is somehow related to the idea of living in denial of some universal principle, the ignorance or veiling which may help form as trade off the accelerating catalyst of those ignorant states of being, though difficult to say for sure.

soup

soup

02-19-2008, 08:18 AM

...so why do we 3d humans have to choose which side we are on?...

This may have already been suggested somewhere - that in the nexus of creation one of the first distortions of the Law Of One, the creator will have freedom of will in ways it will know itself. So related to this seems choices.

In the role of parenting, there seems a tack of giving choices, and with those the consequences that go along with them. So the choice of STS or STO may directly relate to the choice of consequences...and as a good caring parent can, one choice may be promoted over another.

I think this relates to the words Adoni and Adonai and the loose translations of those words. Does anybody know something about that?

soup

Silvanus Sanctus Germanus

03-06-2008, 01:03 PM

My opinion is as follows:

Growth allows intuition to emerge.

Growth is attain by addressing the catalyst in a positive or a negative way.

If an entity is interested in growth, it will instantaniously choose, this is usually done preceding any thought illusion, conserving purity.

The catalyst is then addressed without confusion.;)

This is when you truly know which polarity dominates your method of learning/teaching.

Of course an entity that is undecided whether to pursue Growth might not be able to perceive it's own polarity. Thus feel neutral.:confused:

The energizing of Rays reflect the advantage of choosing and understanding from within.

The extent at wich an entity is polarized is of no importance, it is simply a tool to allows the present to be recognized instantly and to allow the lesson, shall I say, to be learned/taught therefore concerving it's pureness, lessening the possibility of contamination .

The level at which the Rays are then raised, respectfully, is the level at which the understanding was achieved combined with level of control over contamination (distraction). Having nothing to do with the degree of polarity.

Thus I imagine taking things to an extreme, positive or negative, would cloud the lesson creating contamination. Perhaps this is the balance some enteties are concerned about. Being all unique, perhaps some could handle extremes better than others, understanding the control over contaminations or distractions.

The important thing is not the degree of polarity, but the raising of the Ray's Energy Levels. If we think about it, how can Growth be acheived simply by being polarised????-----By allowing our Intuition to emerge in the moment. Which requires a dedication to our choice of polarity, because neutralness or bouncing back and forth obscures the perseption of the catalyst, contaminating the lesson with distractions.:(

So I think if we want Growth, we will choose a polarity, stick to it, and understand that the degree of polarity is of non-importance.

Neutralness is never helpfull even if we were to beleive that we are not ready for the next leap. Because Groth is always helpfull, always, and will ultimately determine the level at which we will re-enter the third density, bringing us closer and closer to the confidence needed for the leap.

Through the Brothers and Sisters of sorrow, may the light shine !!

Sylvain

soup

03-09-2008, 07:23 PM

...So I think if we want Growth, we will choose a polarity, stick to it, and understand that the degree of polarity is of non-importance.
...

So the notion of STS harvest is greater than 95% STS to some degree or another. This reminds me of cut throat competition, ruthless pecking orders and the idea that only the top 5% ellite winners circle is acceptable to continue, the other 95% are losers. Oh - and those winners progress to a dead-end street where they will need to flip polarity at some point to back step for continued progression...

In this context, it just seems easier to win and have an enjoyable time with an STO polarity - though I'm a very non-competitive humble person and so carry some positive bias in this regard.

soup

Silvanus Sanctus Germanus

03-10-2008, 09:54 AM

I love the Law of confusion, it opens up the door for all those who would otherwise turn back at the last second.:eek:

The greatest effort of the Law of One seems to be the recognition, protection and implementation of One's Free Will.

To me this is precisely why we have Polarities. To address the Catylist in a pure, non-contaminated way, exercising Free Will.

What I'm trying to get to is, by pre-choosing a polarity, we reduce the time needed to address the catylist, therefore reducing the chance of allowing any thought form distraction. Thus concerving purity which will reflect the understanding achieve. That is why choosing a polarity and sticking to it will elliminate the time needed to make the choice allowing you to perceive the catalyst in the MOMENT. In turn emerging your intuition, boosting your understanding.

Neutralness would be like giving up Free Will, first of all, allowing thought form to distract and contaminate the lesson.

The degree or extent of polarity(meaning how positive or how negative we are) is not important when it comes to UNDERSTANDING the lesson. Of course whether you are negatively or positively oriented will make a big diffrerence in the LONG RUN. But that is the ultimate lesson isn't it, your intuition is what FEELS right to YOU, and NOT what you THINK. When we exersise Free Will we FEEL what's right, when we give up Free Will we THINK what might be right/wrong, and end up confused. :rolleyes:

Myself I assosiate Positive with: Love, Joy, and Understanding
and Negative with: Misery, Manipulation and Hate
What ever floats your boat. Neutralness is like not having any paddles and letting the current bring you WHEREVER.:confused: BA BA Mentality, shall I say. Having a polarity is like saying NO to outside controll and letting go of fears.

Embrasing the moment requires a detication in polarity.
Being lost in the moment means confusion, caught off guard, stress, worry and regrets, ALL symptoms from having less control over thought forms.
Thought forms are reduced by having a detication in polarity.

Dicovering our true BEING requires absolute control over thought forms or even better requires the ability to remove the self from thought forms. This ability is greatly enhenced when we are true to ourselves and stick to our polarity, which is really done instinctly eventualy.:D

The notion of 95% sts is only important to sts, first of all, they are very, very few, AND are recognisable from a mile away. To me they are on their own paths and are naturaly repelled from the conscious masses. Which works perfectly for them. You might recognise some of them as constantly negative, nagging and feeling sick all the time. Notice how they feed on the energy, and feel better after having people subconsciously send them hate. It is ridiculasly tolerated, therefore encouraging negatively oriented enteties to repeat what ever made people send them Hate in order to feed. That is mostly due to people giving up Free Will. To just not bother. If we were to send Love instead of Hate, I wonder what would happen?

So the Law of Confusion is only required to awaken the Being from Personalising with the Self. Once the illusion falls away there is NOTHING CONFUSING about anything. The KNOWING emerges as INTUITION and the rest becomes HISTORY.

Through the Brothers and Sisters of sorrow, may the light shine.

Sylvain

SuperManny

03-10-2008, 10:20 PM

...The notion of 95% sts is only important to sts, first of all, they are very, very few, AND are recognisable from a mile away.
I don't think that this is always true, in fact Ra states that often you do not recognize them, because they mix in enough verifiable truth to keep you buying their story. As a case in point Jehovah led the Israelites thru the wilderness for 40 years, and all the while they were convinced that he was the true god, when in fact he was a STS entity.

To me they are on their own paths and are naturaly repelled from the conscious masses. Which works perfectly for them. You might recognise some of them as constantly negative, nagging and feeling sick all the time. Actually Ra says they are usually bursting with health. Here's a snip from Session 54
"A negatively oriented individual mind/body/spirit complex will ordinarily program for wealth, ease of existence, and the utmost opportunity for power. Thus many negative entities burst with the physical complex distortion you call health."

e.f

03-11-2008, 04:28 AM

Myself I assosiate Positive with: Love, Joy, and Understanding
and Negative with: Misery, Manipulation and Hate
There's a trap here that is probably being gleefully exploited by the fifthdimensional masters of self.

Polarisation towards service-to-others does not mean that you should disassociate from your shadow-self and avoid confronting, accepting and integrating your own negativity. Love embraces all, not just 'goodness'.

Indeed, if you think about it, isn't the service-to-others path all about integration and the service-to-self path about dissociation?
About the distinction between 'All is I' and 'I is All'?

Silvanus Sanctus Germanus

03-11-2008, 07:45 AM

Thanks for clairifying that for us SuperManny,:)

Sylvain

Through the Brothers and Sisters of sorrow, may the light shine !!

Silvanus Sanctus Germanus

03-11-2008, 10:30 AM

Polarisation towards service-to-others does not mean that you should disassociate from your shadow-self and avoid confronting, accepting and integrating your own negativity. Love embraces all, not just 'goodness'.

Precisely, BUT at this point Life is too short, perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself when I say that there is a distinction between recognising your-self in others, dealing with it INTERNALLY, and actualy expressing it to others. Which would then become service-to-self. In my mind if a person is deticated to service-to-others he/she, at this point, will be mature enough to absorb negativity from self and other-selfs and through understanding, express Love.

There is an ample amout of negativity out there to use as catylist. My opinion is that if you SUPPLY your own negative catylist to others, it is a service-to-self. On the other hand, if you completely deal with your-self INTERNALLY you allow intuition to emerge and then your expression radiates awakening.

If your negativity gets to the point of expression, the core of the lesson is lost and your left to scramble for leftovers. Personalising with the self IS service-to-self. Expressing understanding when faced with negativity IS service to others.

Indeed, if you think about it, isn't the service-to-others path all about integration and the service-to-self path about dissociation?

Yes, Integration of Love Understanding and Unity, but also dissociation from misery, manipulation and hate. The vagueness of the message from RA and the confusion of the Law of One is obviously intentional.

I just want to say that I appreciate the opportunity to talk these things through. In my mind nobody is right and nobody is wrong, I'm just past half-way reading the Law of One series and I can't resist jumping in the conversation or starting one up. I promise to stay on topic but PLEASE do not take me seriously. I could be %100 wrong for all I know in my interpretations of the words from RA. I find it is a great privelidge to be in such company, a big thanks to everybody for contrbuting.:D

Through the Brothers and Sisters of sorrow, may the light shine !!

Sylvain

Silvanus Sanctus Germanus

03-11-2008, 11:51 AM

[QUOTE
About the distinction between 'All is I' and 'I is All'?[/QUOTE]

How about "WE is ALL" or "ALL is ALL" would that now point to "I" as being sperate, in both cases? This is the analogy that is floating around in my mind.

The True concept of "I" has all but disappeared when you awaken from the self. Maybe not the first time but eventually. There will come a time when you spend more time awake then absorbed in the self. To me this a threshold, to realize that being awake might not involve an "I" per say, but more likely a sense of "WE" ( some would call collective consciousness ).

Of course to me the opposite would be the illusion of seperateness (the self or the I). The complete absorbtion in the self forms a sythesised consciousness ( some would call collective unconsciousness )

So to me these would corelate with Polarities, positively oriented intentions would contribute to the collective consciousness therefore radiating awakening and on the other hand, negatively oriented intentions would contribute to the collective unconciousness radiating darkness.

Neutralness or Balance in polarity would avoid contribution, and would seam seperate also, wouldn't it??

Through the Brothers and Sisters of sorrow, may the light shine !!

Sylvain

e.f

03-11-2008, 07:02 PM

The vagueness of the message from RA and the confusion of the Law of One is obviously intentional.
What vagueness of message? Would you explain?

Yes, Integration of Love Understanding and Unity, but also dissociation from misery, manipulation and hate.
I may not quite get what you mean. To me, your sentence is a contradiction in itself. Neither love, nor understanding or unity would ever 'outlaw' misery, manipulation or hate, because per definition they cannot.

About the distinction between 'All is I' and 'I is All'?
Sorry, I seem to have used a construction that makes sense in my own language, but maybe not in yours. It was meant as a shortform for the difference between the paths of service-to-others and service-to-self. While in the first-mentioned path you become aware that you are not singular, but part of a larger whole and start to create what Ra calls 'social memory complexes', the second path tries the opposite approach, that is 'you as a singularity are the God you look for', all powerful, in possession of 'the truth' and in control.

Silvanus Sanctus Germanus

03-12-2008, 12:50 PM

QUOTE]What vagueness of message? Would you explain?[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the question E.F, I will TRY to answer, in my own WORDS of course, (which deep down can only BE wrong)

The vagueness is the same as the thought that YOU, ME, RA or ANYONE for that matter could ever be able to put into WORDS the true meaning of the message. The truth (if we may CALL it that) comes from within. The Law of One points to IT all the while exersising discrimination towards Free Will.

What I mean is, it is impossible to put into words or meaning the essence of our being.

Remember DISCERNMENT !!

It is up to US to explore each avenue or catylist, not ignoring the Law of Confusion, depersonalising with ANY results, allowing the potential for Growth.

But that's just what I think !!!!

Through the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow, may the light shine !!

Sylvain

mellisamouse

03-19-2008, 02:30 PM

I just know with me personally, I want nothing to do with violating anothers free will, yet I do not want my will violated either. Balanced, but still on the positive, becuse I do not want to violate others?

Silvanus Sanctus Germanus

03-21-2008, 07:54 PM

Perhaps the Balance is in relation to the Energy Rays, and not as much related to polarity. In 3d, One seeks to Balance the appropriate Ray's Vibrations in time for the harvest.

Polarisation also has a misperceived connection to "polarity". In my mind "Polarisation" can mean the same as above, but "polarity" on the other hand as in being Positively Oriented or Negatively Oriented is a choice that is made using jugement/discernment and I believe that this choice is something to be proud of, expressed and enjoyed in every moment.:)

Sylvain

Through the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow, may the light shine !!!

Sal

03-28-2008, 08:01 PM

Hi All...
From what I understand from the LoO is in order to get to 4D negative, we have to be 95% service to self...any less apparently just won't cut it, very few 3Ders are capable of being that self serving apparently and the harvest for 4D negative is very small.

From what I understand, those who make it to 4D negative do not have their orange 'Love' chakra open at all and just skip it and obtain power through rituals or magic to achieve ascension artifically, in other words I think they kind of cheat by playing God in a sense. The Orion beings and thier inability to pro create their race has something to do with this I think.

From what I can gather, 4D positive is for understanding unconditional love.
I don't think we are expected to really understand it here, we've just got to want to understand it to move in that direction, then service to self is added to that in 5D so that we can be wise with the understanding of unconditional love, maybe the service to self part in 5D means just studying for your own benefit more than anything else...being a bit more selfish ya know, or am I being too optimistic :)

Anyway....I think those of you who don't think that unconditional love in 4D positive would be any fun and would be boring, I think you maybe need to just use your imagination and think of how this world could really be.
With service to others...I imagine we would have so much positive energy that our hearts would be glad to serve and help others for starters. I don't think we realise fully how much energy this 3D world sucks out of us.
Being a painter and fortunate enough to have a vivid imagination, I can only imagine how much fun it would be to create art and music in an atmosphere of unconditional love. Being a kid at heart too I'm sure I'll be able to enjoy unbelievable games and entertainment, admire stunning architecture and see new colours, and probably many things we never dreamed of, have faith that it will be wonderful. Who could ever see time travel as boring? Or flying for that matter. Maybe I'm just a dreamer...but hey....isn't that what makes the world go around? :D

Love and Peace
Sal

soup

03-30-2008, 04:56 PM

...I can only imagine how much fun it would be to create art and music in an atmosphere of unconditional love...

It may be that things are created twice, first in the mind and second within reality. Here seems some example of using "word" to invoke positive experiences within reality. As if by sharing such words we help to co-create positive experiences for those around us.

Thank you, Sal - that's a good idea. I feel compelled to make some nice music now.

soup

Billuminous

03-31-2008, 10:58 AM

I'm new...maybe this has been answered here before...according to Ra, is it possible for an entity to become a really old soul in 3D, because the entity has chosen to lean towards service-to-self but doesn't have the dedication or interest in pursuing the level of service-to-self necessary for 4D.

Could there be REALLY old souls on present 3D earth who remained fixed at around 75% service-to-self?

Why is it necessary for an entity to gravitate towards a positive or negative orientation necessary for harvest to 4D?

Silvanus Sanctus Germanus

03-31-2008, 03:26 PM

Why is it necessary for an entity to gravitate towards a positive or negative orientation necessary for harvest to 4D?

Hi, Billuminous:)
Ra mentions that 3rd density is short compared to others because it is mainly focused on making a "Choice", and that our memories have been temporarily blocked to preserve our Free Will. 4D welcomes a dedication in polarity.
Neutralness or bouncing back and forth defeats the purpose, and might just produce some of the "old souls in 3D" who knows?:rolleyes: .........Sylvain

soup

04-06-2008, 03:07 PM

...Neutralness or bouncing back and forth defeats the purpose...

This may speak somehow of the percentage thresholds which differ for either side. Possibly this correlates to energetic development or crystalization for energetic centers, that for some reason this doesn't happen inbetween.

soup

soup

07-20-2008, 01:41 PM

...we 3d humans are currently "service to other" and "service to self"...there is not one human that is 100% one or the other...both extremes make us up...this dualistic nature to our reality is based on this...of course we are not both of these extremes at the same time but rather we flip flop between the two...

Maybe such simplistic notion, STS/STO, is simply an experiment - that if people would simply become conscious of such duality they may somehow evolve their programming in a way which allows them to be more conscientious within the choices they make - and that as people grow more conscientious then the quality of life improves the world 'round. And so on some level the people who have become conscious of such duality become scientifically observed on some level. Here the uncertainty principle comes into play, where the observer tweaks the observed in ways conducive to improving quality of life...

soup

conundrum

07-21-2008, 12:41 AM

What if polarity has some thing to do with how our monkey suits operate for instance if the first humans on earth just sat on mountains meditating breeding would never have occurred and there would still only be Adam and Eve walking around in fig leaves on the planet.

Doesn't just being a male or female mean we have already polarized ?
every thing else that we do on earth could be seen as survival based couldn't it ?

Even the negative elites could be seen in such a way plus most businesses, most successful businesses hoard and hide there technology use misinformation and usually make attaining the knowledge in regards to recreating there products impossible.

This is survival based in regards to floating a business as if competition gets its hands on the technology or knowledge it wont be long until what they are selling becomes not profitable .

As for being incarnated into a broken body or a healthy one why does some one have to be suffering and in pain to make spiritual progress unless shedding of ones body becomes desirable and becomes the main focus.

Not desiring any thing of this world would make sense because if you exist in a broken body nothing on earth is going to be desirable in regards to materialistic things as you don't have a body to enjoy it with.. kind of like giving a wheel chair bound person a skipping rope as a present so to speak.

Even being service to self or others most people are not going to put them selves in harms way or do things they don't find enjoyable unless they don't have a choice .
For instance working in a factory doing repetitive boring labor or as a carer wiping drawl and vomit from an elderly patient.

We do most things because we need money for survival not because we want to unless
you were born into a happy and well to do family at which point you have a choice, most people on the planet do not which leaves people little choice but to survive.

People adapt to the environment and there circumstances they do the best they can with what knowledge they have all else is observed and learned from the environment survive or die is the only real choice at the end of the day... maybe that is the only polarity every thing else is faith to carry on living .