2012 - Sudden event vs. gradual progression [Archive]

DAB

01-02-2008, 11:48 AM

Hello everyone!

It seems to me that the only controversy left is whether or not the dimensional shift will be a sudden event or a more gradual weeding out of compatible souls. I would love to hear everyones opinions of this issue. I believe that Mr. Wilcock leans toward it being a more sudden event but I have to say that the majority of what I read in other places support a slow process of change. In the Hopi prophecy I have read that they feel it will be a much more rapid succession of events in which people will be running around in the streets and going crazy as they do not understand why reality seems to be bending in front of their eyes. Honestly, I would love to see it happen in a rapid manner but I feel I need to mentally prepare myself for the long haul if need be. My feelings on it keep changing. Just a few months ago I would have placed my money on it being a more gradual progression but things seem to be accelerating more than anyone anticipated.

Thanks in advance!

Hi FooSnik, Happy Stardate Now! : )

I personally don't believe there is any controversy left. The dimensional shift has been going on for decades, imho. It is only now that it has come to the forefront because it IS the forefront, now, right now. And as you suggested/expressed, time is bending and warping and folding in on itself creating an acceleration of change. The meaning of time as we know it will eventually dissolve.
Soon people are going to be thinking with their hearts first...and these people that are inherently good will simply turn from everything that they "feel" is bad...no more hesitation far any reason(s). The ego and the material world will matter less and less and the spiritual world of the heart and soul will be what IS.

I have one more question for y'all. Wouldn't a sudden event be an infraction on people's free will? Free will, from what I understand, is one of the primary universal laws in which people have the right to live out their lives however they choose, be it service to self or others. Wouldn't a sudden event in which people are forced to change their ways or face the consequences be a violation of this very important universal law? It kind of sounds fascist and controlling to force everyone to be one way or the other or face grave consequences, doesn't it?

I would love to hear what everyone else's opinion is as well.

A sudden event opening up a real time choice would not be an infraction on free will...simply time for a one of a kind energy of an option of a real time choice that will really change personal reality...from fear to love...from hate to oneness.
No one will be 'forced' to change anything...but will be given the very free and very defined "choice" to change everything to good. STS beings can decide and choose to become STO beings. What will be different, imho, is that there will be fewer and fewer and fewer beings left in the STS reality...and they will be soon looking at one another and the self-propagated pain of their world will be right there in the now in front of them looking right back at them.

Namaste!

SuperManny

01-02-2008, 08:23 PM

I think the future is still pretty wide open about this. When you read the Ra description of how many parallel/probable realities there are, I think there is plenty of room for a large variety of experiences. As we get closer to this event every life-defining decision we make, will draw us closer to one path or another. Likely some paths may be phased out according to the choices we make, either consciously or unconsciously.

As I posted elsewhere in this forum;Whenever I just get very quiet I can sometimes kinda tune in to all that's available for us to experience. In doing so I find that there's still a vast array of experiences to choose from, at this point it almost seems like everyone will go thru the changes in their own unique way, until we all gravitate toward like-minded individuals to create our own path.

I see the ones having the most difficulty as the same ones that want to maintain the status quo of the power structure, because I see a probable reality for them where if they can just hold on a little bit longer, they would gain a huge advantage in their struggle for power. These are mostly STSs, but would not include all STSs.

Now the next level (as I see it) are those that are so caught up in the struggle of daily living, that they are completely blind-sided by what's happening and are almost completely helpless as to how to respond. These people will likely experience a lot of earth changes. From this group we'll see a few heroes rise up, like a phoenix from it's ashes. Not many, but a few will wake up and respond as if this is what they were waiting for their whole lives. Unfortunately a few villains will emerge, here too.This group will experience a much longer process.

And then there are those that will choose a completely peaceful transition, almost as if they suddenly remembered that the movers were coming and they had been planning to move into a new house in a much better area.

I also see a fairly large group of people who think there's something is going on but they can't quite put their finger on it. For this group it's as if time slowed down and their experiences will be spread out over a much longer period of time. This group will experience the event over a period of many years, as it appears at this time. Because of how fast things are currently changing, these paths could also change quite a bit, but this is how it appears at this time.

heck

01-02-2008, 11:50 PM

>Wouldn't a sudden event be an infraction on people's free will?

I think it entirely depends on what your soul agreed to before incarnating here. Perhaps you knew full well what would happen in terms of sudden shifts or events, and you were okay with that. Kind of like the oath you take to abide by the natural laws and respect the illusion of linearity of time here.

In other words, you don't remember to what you agreed... yet.

Just my 2 cents.

weboy78

01-03-2008, 02:18 AM

for me, more we are near 2012 and more the events become rapid in frequency and the 2012 will be a omega point.

Cynlor2012

01-03-2008, 07:22 AM

Thats why it is so imperatrive that one reads the fine print when signing any contract. If you notice at the bottom of all contracts it specifically states:

All souls subject to ascension in 2012 and beyond

Go figure :)

One 66

01-04-2008, 03:22 PM

Cynlor2012,

Good one! That gave me a good chukle :D

Also, I would have to agree with Heck - "I think it entirely depends on what your soul agreed to before incarnating here. Perhaps you knew full well what would happen in terms of sudden shifts or events, and you were okay with that. Kind of like the oath you take to abide by the natural laws and respect the illusion of linearity of time here.''

One 66 :cool:

closingcross

01-06-2008, 02:14 PM

Simply, the vale will be removed. Fear is the basis here and now and the re-balance will be the experience. Being seperate from one another is not an option. The break down described is not possible with "I" involved. Whether we prepare or not we all must go through the same thing together and bear each of the others burden. This is why we have profits every now and then, to make the transition less traumatic. The more of us who act on the true message the less of a shock it will be. This is very strange but had to be said.

Raoul

01-07-2008, 09:59 AM

Good question. Hello dear friends, from what I've read and my own thoughts, apart from a bit of confusion I think there are two main paths: one is a sudden change with a lot of turmoil (natural disasters, ufos rescueing some of the good souls, badies hiding underground with tons of supplies etc.). This "sudden change scenario" may be the path that will materialize unless a sufficiently large critical mass will awaken. The alternative is an easier one, if enough of us awakwen and start thinking in a strong STO fashion we might have a gradual shift to the 4-5th densities, we adjust...we live happily for a long time afterwards. Nevertheless I'm still :confused:

FooSnik

01-11-2008, 02:04 PM

Sorry about the delayed response but I was gone for awhile and now I'm back! Thanks everyone for your responses. They were very helpful to me and I do feel now that the second part of my post has been cleared up. The general consensus here, I think, is that we knew full well what we were getting into before we chose to incarnate here in this particular space/time. That makes perfect sense to me, as well as the fact that a natural cycle of the universe, which the 2012 phenomenon is, is no more an infraction of free will than a changing of the seasons say from summer to fall to winter. That would be like saying it is an infraction against my free will because I didn't ask to be cold when it turned winter. You have the choice to feel and do whatever you want to within the context of the ebb and flow of the universal tides. I suppose achieving the next density would be like transcending these tides to some extent. Sound about right?

Let me be a little more specific with my first part of my question. I realize that there is no %100 sure way of knowing what is going to happen but I would like to hear if anyone has come to more clarity than I have, which is not much. I have read Mr. Wilcock say in a past blog, and don't quote me on this, that when the tidal wave of energy hits the earth it will be like flipping a light switch and the people who are %51 STO will be zapped away to the next dimension, appearing to the people left behind like they have vaporized into thin air. So how many people feel an event such as this will take place?

Your responses are always much appreciated.

Mustang

01-14-2008, 05:25 PM

Metamike

01-18-2008, 10:12 AM

FooSnik

01-25-2008, 04:44 AM

Hello all :) . I'm new here so my thoughts on this subject might seem a bit "foreign":) . There's no doubt in my mind we're all going through a change. Whether it be apocalyptic as "prophesized" or wonderfull as the collective consiousness wants remains to be seen. We've been held back for millenia. We've been given our religions, sciences, civilizations, moneys etc etc.. all basically to keep us under control and our minds occupied. We see even more of this today with religions at odds, scientific dogma belittling any new theories that stray too far from our 3 dimensional norm, the global warming scare designed to lay the blame on us, "terrorist nations", etc etc.. All designed to instill fear, ignorance and hate in us all. As a collective consience filled with fear and hate, it would seem the transition would be anything but wonderfull. I see things changing for the better however! People are waking up and questioning the status quo. Those that instill fear and hate are losing the battle for our souls. It's really up to us how we'll all be going through this change. It can be as pain free or as painfull as we want it to be. The answer to me is love, prayer and positive action. :)

I do not feel your thoughts are foreign at all. What you said makes perfect sense to me. What I really want your opinion on is the rate in which this process of change will take place. Will it be an overnight kind of mass hysteria or will it be another 50 years of this long torturous process of weeding out the bad?

Metamike:

The process of ascension has been going on for a long time now. The energies have been bombarding the planet and it's people and this is why some people are freaking out and others are experiencing psychic changes. I got an interesting connection from a web page on newer discoveries in physics. The latest understanding in physics is that an electron changes its orbit immediately and without experiencing a gradual movement. The energy to get that electron to move can, however build up over time. So my answer is this. Gradual and immediately. Like pulling back a slingshot - gradually, and letting go - immediately you will be propelled to the level you are intended to go.
Mike from Norway

Thank you for sharing your thoughts but I am finding it a bit cryptic. It is kind of like saying god is the alpha and the omega, which is basically saying everything and nothing in one sentence. The average human mind just cannot wrap their minds around something like that.

Could you be a little more specific about when you think this "slingshot" will be released? The energies are gradually building up now and will be released in 2012? Is that what you mean?

Metamike

01-25-2008, 11:09 AM

Sorry about seeming cryptic. That was not my intention. It is my understanding that the planet has been exposed to a gradual and increasingly intense energy or vibration since 1987. As this energy increases the planet gets warmer, changes happen, people wake up or flip out and and as the energy increases, I think it will reach a sudden threshold, or another sudden event will occur. Like a wave washing over the earth. There is a Russian researcher that found out that we are in the path of an energy that will perhaps disappear us. I know that sounds cryptic. I have given David the link a while back. Its just another one of those evidences that lead me to believe that the end event will be quick - the preparing takes a while.
Hope that helps.
Mike from Norway:)

FooSnik

01-25-2008, 03:06 PM

Metamike:

Its just another one of those evidences that lead me to believe that the end event will be quick - the preparing takes a while.
Hope that helps.
Mike from Norway

Thank you, you have answered my question. Cheers!

Debbie

02-01-2008, 02:17 PM

I also feel that the energetic shift has been building up for a long while, and that it will culminate in a swift way for those of us who are going to the 4th density. I am not as sure how I feel about the way it is going to go for those are not going to be be going into the 4th density. Because of the prophesies of Naustrodamus, I find myself leaning towards believing that some of the people will go to another 3rd density planet, and some of them will stay here. But I am not completely sure what I believe yet, I am just throwing thoughts out there.

DuaneKelly

02-03-2008, 05:04 AM

I don't look at it as an impedement on free will. The choce has always been yours from the start. Through my studies and my talking with all sorts of people I have found out that the majority of people I talk to are well aware of 2012 and they CHOOSE to ignore it even though I try my hardest to downplay the gloom and doom that the media spins on it. There is their free will into play. The consequenses for their choices is theirs. You can not be everyones mesiah. I hope its not too sudden because I want to enjoy the experience!!!! :D

SuperManny

02-03-2008, 11:09 AM

I have found out that the majority of people I talk to are well aware of 2012 and they CHOOSE to ignore it even though I try my hardest to downplay the gloom and doom that the media spins on it. There is their free will into play. The consequenses for their choices is theirs. You can not be everyones mesiah. I hope its not too sudden because I want to enjoy the experience!!!! :DIt's always difficult to see that there are so many people who just don't seem interested in graduating, especially when they're family and friends. Ra was asked how they dealt with this situation and here is their response.
Questioner: What was the attitude prior to harvest of those harvestable entities of Ra with respect to those who were obviously unharvestable?
Ra: I am Ra. Those of us which had the gift of polarity felt deep compassion for those who seemed to dwell in darkness. This description is most apt as ours was a harshly bright planet in the physical sense. There was every attempt made to reach out with whatever seemed to be needed. However, those upon the positive path have the comfort of companions and we of Ra spent a great deal of our attention upon the possibilities of
achieving spiritual or metaphysical adepthood or work in indigo ray through the means of relationships with other-selves. Consequently, the compassion for those in darkness was balanced by the appreciation of the light.
Questioner: Would Ra have the same attitude toward the unharvestable entities or would it be different at this nexus than at the time of harvest from the third density?
Ra: I am Ra. Not substantially. To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping. Service is only possible to the extent it is requested. We were ready to serve in whatever way we could. This still seems satisfactory as a means of dealing with other-selves in third density. It is our feeling that to be each entity which one attempts to serve is to simplify the grasp of what service is necessary or possible.

Goyo

02-04-2008, 07:58 AM

MarkM

02-04-2008, 08:25 PM

Hey everyone, I'm really enjoying the discussion. I just wanted to point out this article by DW which is supported by the Law of One material as saying that it will be a sudden event.
http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=332&Itemid=30

Thanks, Goyo, a welcome refresher.

In my private study as well as on the Law of One forum I have considered some of Ra's statements from Session 63 regarding those on Earth now with dually activated, or transitional bodies which are both 3D and 4D activated.

Questioner: Now, we have I believe, if I remember correctly — I think you said there were 600* million Wanderers, approximately. Am I correct in that memory? [* corrected in Session 64]

Ra: I am Ra. This is approximately correct. There is some excess to that amount.

Questioner: Does that number include the harvestable third-density who are coming to this planet for the fourth-density experience?

Ra: I am Ra. No.

Questioner: Approximately how many are here now who have come from other planets third-density harvestable for fourth-density experience?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a recent, shall we say, phenomenon and the number is not yet in excess of 35,000 entities.

Questioner: Now these entities incarnate into a third-density vibratory body. I am trying to understand how this transition takes place from third to fourth-density. I will take the example of one of these entities of which we are speaking who is now in a third-density body. He will grow older and then will it be necessary that he die from the third-density physical body and reincarnate in a fourth-density body for that transition?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation. It will be noted that the entities birthing these fourth-density entities experience a great feeling of, shall we say, the connection and the use of spiritual energies during pregnancy. This is due to the necessity for manifesting the double body.

This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third-density necessities.

Later in the same session, Ra says the following:

Questioner: Now, are there any inhabitants at this time of this fourth-density sphere who have already gone through this process. Is it now being populated?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct only in the very, shall we say, recent past.

Questioner: I would assume this population is from other planets since the harvesting has not occurred yet on this planet. It is from planets where the harvesting has already occurred. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Questioner: Then are these entities visible to us? Could I see one of them? Would he walk upon our surface?

Ra: I am Ra. We have discussed this. These entities are in dual bodies at this time.

Ra is specifying dual bodies. It is possible to consider that perhaps these young people, who numbered only 35,000 in 1981, inhabit both 3D Earth in space/time, and 4D Earth in time/space 'simultaneously'.

Questioner: Then at some time in the future the fourth-density sphere will be fully activated. What is the difference between full activation and partial activation for this sphere?

Ra: I am Ra. At this time the cosmic influxes are conducive to true color green core particles being formed and material of this nature thus being formed. However, there is a mixture of the yellow-ray and green-ray environments at this time necessitating the birthing of transitional mind/body/spirit complex types of energy distortions. At full activation of the true color green density of love the planetary sphere will be solid and inhabitable upon its own and the birthing that takes place will have been transformed through the process of time, shall we say, to the appropriate type of vehicle to appreciate in full the fourth-density planetary environment. At this nexus the green-ray environment exists to a far greater extent in time/space than in space/time.

Questioner: Could you describe the difference that you are speaking of with respect to time/space and space/time?

Ra: I am Ra. For the sake of your understanding we will use the working definition of inner planes. There is a great deal of subtlety invested in this sound vibration complex, but it, by itself, will perhaps fulfill your present need.

Here, Ra seems to be describing a gradual transition through the 'birthing process' to a fully 4D compatible vehicle.

To some, this may seem another indication of the gradualist model, in terms of the whole global harvest/ascension model, as some may get stuck on the following, also from Session 63:

Questioner: So— I will make this statement, and you correct me. What we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy, as the big wheel in the sky turns and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth-density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. These atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the green, that is the green core vibrations complete more and more completely the fourth-density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. To be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. This creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density type of physical vehicle and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.

Here at first glance, especially if this statement is not taken in the context of the preceeding discussion as regards dually activated bodies, this seems at odds with the sudden event model.

Perhaps, though, it is through the means of those with the doubly activated bodies, bridging the genetic gap between 3rd and 4th density, who provide 4D vehicles for those Earth 'natives' who become 4D harvestable.

If some are 'already' there, beginning the process of procreation, perhaps the populating of the newly 4D planet will be gradual, and those who are harvested in a massive, sudden event circa 2011 - 2013 may undergo a review of their entire sojourn in 3D in the 4D inner planes outside of the timeline as we understand it, yet incarnate into 4D Earth in a staggered manner, through time, as 4D vehicles become available.

Perhaps similar to the 'argument' of Creationism vs. Evolution, there are elements of truth in both camps. Although I believe there will be a sudden harvest at virtually the same time as the Earth jumps into the true colour green vibration in full space/time manifestation in a sudden event, it seems from Ra that certain processes can be construed as being gradual.

(We must also keep in mind that we are attempting to wrap our 3D heads around 4D concepts of time and space. If you hold up a soup can in front of an animal and rotate it so that it appears a rectangle at one moment, and a circle the next, it may not comprehend how it can be both at once, seeing only a changing shape and not comprehending a cylinder.)

I feel that notwithstanding all this, in speaking to our individual experience we may undergo an instantaneous transition, even though it may be for some a transition to inner planes of 4D, as we await our turn to incarnate into a new 4D body.

Just a snapshot of current musings!:confused:

-Mark

johnasmodeus

02-04-2008, 10:19 PM

Something inside me wants it to be sudden, just because it would be cooler that way. But it would be probably be better for all involved if there was at least SOME kind of "drumroll" leading up to the event.

Anyway, I care less about sudden vs. gradual than I do about sooner vs. later. I just want it to hurry up and happen and not be delayed by anything. I've always felt that I was kind of shipwrecked here, in this place, and even though I have no conscious memory of home, I still can't wait to get back.

;)

Magical_Mongoose

02-05-2008, 11:23 AM

Who really knows how it will pan out? However, from what I've gathered and has been articulated by nearly all those somewhat perceptive of what's occurring, is that 2012 represents a timeline split and/or a period of drastic change such that it causes drastic shifts within the global psyche. This could possibly be a self-fulfilling prophecy as people gather in anticipation only for nothing to happen, and then amid the confusion and yearning, that's when the positive changes actually start sprouting when we realize it's up to us. Yet simultaneously, this also presents a period of darkness as those unable to properly balance and ground themselves succumb to negative influences (greater neurosis, mistrust, paranoia and insanity) as other groups align themselves with the Light.
Then something happens, or hopefully, will happen...probably energy pulsations will shift the electromagnetic field and further amplify both shadow elements and elements of the HS as manifested within the physical world. I think this is occurring right now, yet this will continue to grow within the world. However, this drastic difference in resonance and energy within the Earth's field will grow until it is released in some fashion in a systemic jump, as one frequency generates a wholly altered structure (4D). However, ideally I hope this will occur primarily on a psycho-spiritual level of newfound esoteric understandings and awareness, compassion and hear-based living.
Yet, there remains the possibility this will be expressed within destructive physical occurances, depending upon the necessary catalysts needed to bring about heightened states of consciousness and compassion. However, significant deviations (I was told in a dream that one happened in 2004) have occurred that have nearly eliminated the probability of a global cataclysm, so rest assured for those worrying within the grips of paranoia and fear this is a highly unlikely event. There will be hotspots, but that's a moot point.
To conclude, I think it is a gradual progression of change yet will be expressed within a sudden systemic jump. Just to preach for a bit ;): the very notion of "sudden" or "gradual" is ignoring the reality that we have prepared and trained for this event for quite possibly for our entire existence as souls (Infinity). All of your experiences have lead you to this point, and based upon what energies you have drawn from those experiences and whereupon you focus them in the present will determine the nature of your future.

MarkM

02-05-2008, 05:40 PM

The process of ascension has been going on for a long time now. The energies have been bombarding the planet and it's people and this is why some people are freaking out and others are experiencing psychic changes. I got an interesting connection from a web page on newer discoveries in physics. The latest understanding in physics is that an electron changes its orbit immediately and without experiencing a gradual movement. The energy to get that electron to move can, however build up over time. So my answer is this. Gradual and immediately. Like pulling back a slingshot - gradually, and letting go - immediately you will be propelled to the level you are intended to go. ;)
Mike from Norway

Great thoughts, Mike!

There are some Youtube videos on 'Cymatics', wherein sand upon a drumskin vibrates as a projected sound tone gradually increases in pitch, and if you can capture in your mind the points at which each of the notes of the diatonic musical scale is achieved, you see the geometric patterns made by the sand pop into new levels of complexity, seemingly following a progression related to the Platonic solids.

This 'valence shell' related phenomena of dynamic leaping from one geometric form into another illustrates for me the relationship between the universal octave(s) of the structure of reality and our experience as evolving souls through the densities.

Seven levels, with the eighth repeating the first.

Might as well jump!

Metamike

02-06-2008, 06:07 AM

I read Davids longer posting concerning the sudden or gradual event. If you haven't seen it, its worth taking the time to read. The cymatics metafor is pretty much the same as the quanta physics one. The electron shift is immediate when the energy level becomes sufficient to make the jump. The science is all there. There is no doubt, if you have read the e-books from DW and the Ra material. I am looking forward to the show.
Mike from Norway

vithar

03-01-2008, 07:22 AM

i've a book on artificial intelligence where it's mentioned that one of the original findings was that, indeed, progressions are quantized. advances appear suddenly. and from other disciplines, right before a brief bout of enhanced chaos.

i'm under the impression man is actually extremely old. we build up, get knocked down....over and over. also that man was more advanced ages ago.

it kinda seems to me, all this is old hat - been there done that. we could be simply going in circles. this is a 3D matrix cell. it's up to your "lightbody" or some such to get the f--- out (and stay if so desired) of it. it's as simple as that.

some critters and organics have'nt changed at all for eons. that must've taken some strong uniquness. those spoiled little brats. how dare they not evolve. they must have some kinda photon shield, for certain photons.

riCo

09-09-2008, 03:27 AM

Hi my friends,

at the moment im reading "A Wanderer`s Handbook" by Carla Rueckert, which is very interesting and i share alot of her understanding of this topic.
But what bothers me is her view on ascension being a gradual process and her believe that it could take many centuries until ascension.
I also heard that David said the same in his last interview with Larry Seyer, that Carla Rueckert shared more likely the gradual ascension theory.

What i totally cant understand is how she can think this way, being the channel of Ra, who clearly states that the shift will happen around 2011/2012. Doesnt she believe in her own sources or is she depressed by past predictions being not fulfilled?

I`m really glad for the effort she has done and the information she is sharing, but for people who didnt come along David Wilcock and his information about interpreting the Law of One yet, its a quiet depressing view to hear the channeler say that it will be a gradual process and may very well take many centuries.

I really believe that it will be a spontanious event, like evolution has shown in the past and i more likely share David`s view on this topic than Carla`s, since he gave a very good explanation concerning Ra explaining it as a spontanious event.

I just wonder whats your take on this, because from the first pages i have read, i have the feeling that Carlas is a bit depressed and thats why she doesnt have so much faith in her own sources.

I hope we can clear this up!

Love & Light, Frederik.

soup

09-12-2008, 06:43 PM

The idea of a sudden event reminds me of the mention of Hiroshima, something about how those involved were managed and how it wood take some time to sort out.

As I ponder that I wonder if the notion of developing oneself to a harvestable state somehow cooincides win ones ability to communicate important information regarding the evolutionary status of ones being. Possibly this communication goes on while one is alive - as if a backup of ones experiences is better inscribed on say, a record (time/space) with which if something did happen suddenly the record may better be recovered.

In this sense, an unharvestable person may only be able to commmuunicate in some incoherent sence which may muddy their corresponding record in some way which limits their choice of reincarnational opportunity, hence confusion.

It may be remarkable that many adepts aspire to a peaceful beautiful death and this may likewise correspond to a stable high fidelity recording by which they may go on without confusion.

soup

3D Sunset

09-15-2008, 08:55 AM

What i totally cant understand is how she can think this way, being the channel of Ra, who clearly states that the shift will happen around 2011/2012. Doesnt she believe in her own sources or is she depressed by past predictions being not fulfilled?

Let's start by reviewing what Ra said exactly (or as exactly as we can given that we were not there):

First, it is interesting to note that the years 2011 and 2012 do not appear in any of the 5 Books of the Law of One. Here's the first interchange that does address a timeframe for transition to 4D.

Ra Book I, Session 6.
Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to the progression of cycles at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness. It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in your past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately thirty of your years.

Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

Questioner: Is it possible to estimate what percent of the present population will inhabit the fourth-density planet?

Ra: I am Ra. The harvesting is not yet, thus, estimation is meaningless.

Note that in the last statement, Ra indicates that the harvest is not yet. Compare that to the following quote, however:
Ra Book I, Session 14
Questioner: Would there be any value to the people of this planet now to complete this machine?

Ra: I am Ra. The harvest is now. There is not at this time any reason to include efforts along these distortions toward longevity, but rather to encourage distortions toward seeking the heart of self, for this which resides clearly in the violet-ray energy field will determine the harvesting of each mind/body/spirit complex.

How do we reconcile these apparently contradictory statements? It's fairly easy, to me. In the first case, Ra means that the Harvest has not "played out". It is not complete. In the second case, Ra indicates that trying to extend life is not really beneficial, because this is the time of harvest. There are several such comments made throughout the books that can be taken and interpreted differently depending upon your personal slant. The nature of this material is to be exceedingly exact on the metaphysical aspects of harvest and rather ambiguous on the physical details.

Personally, I too subscribe to Carla's view. I do believe that there will be one or more events during a window indlucing 2012. But I do not see any compelling evidence for there being a momentus, spontaneous, uplifting of egos. Here are a few quotes supporting this view:

Ra Book II, Session 40
Questioner: How long was the time of transition from second to third density? A generation and a half I believe you said. Is that correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct, the time measured in your years being approximately 1,350.

Questioner: Then what will be the time of transition on this planet from third to fourth-density?

Ra: I am Ra. This is difficult to estimate due to the uncharacteristic anomalies of this transition. There are at this space/time nexus beings incarnate which have begun fourth-density work. However, the third density climate of planetary consciousness is retarding the process. At this particular nexus the possibility/probability vortices indicate somewhere between 100 and 700 of your years as transition period. This cannot be accurate due to the volatility of your peoples at this space/time.

One hundred to 700 years? Hardly sounds spontaneous! Let's pursue the people Ra refers to as the beings incarnate which have begun 4D work.

Ra Book III, Session 63

Questioner: Approximately how many are here now who have come here from other planets who are third-density harvestable for fourth-density experience?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a recent, shall we say, phenomenon and the number is not yet in excess of 35,000 entities.

Questioner: Now these entities incarnate into a third-density vibratory body. I am trying to understand how this transition takes place from third to fourth-density. I will take the example of one of these entities of which we are speaking who is now in a third-density body. He will grow older and then will it be necessary that he die from the third-density physical body and reincarnate in a fourth-density body for that transition?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation. It will be noted that the entities birthing these fourth-density entities experience a great feeling of, shall we say, the connection and the use of spiritual energies during pregnancy. This is due to the necessity for manifesting the double body.

This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.

To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third density necessities.

Questioner: You are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth-density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

We may respond to the heart of your question by noting that the purpose of such combined activation of mind/body/spirit complexes is that such entities, to some extent, conscientiously are aware of those fourth-density understandings which third-density is unable to remember due to the forgetting. Thus fourth-density experience may be begun with the added attraction to an entity oriented toward service-to-others of dwelling in a troubled third-density environment and offering its love and compassion.

Now, finally a quote in which Ra indicates that population of 4D Earth will take place over time and through normal evolutionary means:

Ra Book III, Session 63
Questioner: I will make this statement and have you correct me. What we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. These atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the fourth density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. To be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. This creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density type of physical vehicle and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.

Questioner: Then are these entities of whom we have spoken, the third density harvestable who have been transferred, the ones who then will, by bisexual reproduction, create the fourth-density complexes that are necessary?

Ra: I am Ra. The influxes of true color green energy complexes will more and more create the conditions in which the atomic structure of cells of bodily complexes is that of the density of love. The mind/body/spirit complexes inhabiting these physical vehicles will be, and to some extent, are, those of whom you spoke and, as harvest is completed, the harvested entities of this planetary influence.

So this sounds to me as though 4D entities will result from dual activated 3D entities having children, that in the course of a few generations, will have evolved into 4D beings. Hmmmm, maybe DW is off base on his whole ascension concept. Or maybe not. But I think you see that there is a lot of room for interpretation within the LoO material. I do not see that Carla is, in any way, departing from the teachings of Ra, although she clearly is of a different view than DW.

Finally, I don't think Carla would be remotely bothered by any alleged "unfulfilled prophecies". She is one of the loudest and longest proponents of ignoring the transitory aspects of harvest. Anything that you can identify as a "prophecy" of Ra's (of which there are really few, and are always noted by Ra as being unimportant and difficult to nail down to a specific moment in time), is invariably open to some interpretation.

Sorry for the length of this reply, it kept growing while I wrote it. I hope this is in some way beneficial in you quest.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

soup

09-15-2008, 07:00 PM

There was mention a few years ago in another forum the possibility that cetacean lifeforms were likely 4D compatible .. maybe they have remanants of terrestrial roots (vestuvial appendages) that support the idea of being not so u like a terrestrial dual body.

soup

riCo

09-16-2008, 02:42 PM

@3D Sunset, Ra states that the harvest will be approximately around 2011 - 2013.

Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest will occur in the year 2,011, or will it be spread?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest [Ascension].
Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest [Ascension].

Questioner: What is the position of this planet with respect to the progression of cycles at this time?

Ra: I am Ra. This sphere is at this time in fourth-dimension vibration. Its material is quite confused due to the society memory complexes embedded in its consciousness.
It has not made an easy transition to the vibrations which beckon. Therefore, it will be fetched with some inconvenience.

Questioner: Is this inconvenience imminent within a few years?

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately three oh — thirty — of your years. [1981+30= 2011]
Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

David Wilcock explained pretty well in this article that it wont be a gradual transition. Only one quote as far as i know, brought up the distortion of the harvest being a gradual event.

http://divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=332&Itemid=30

Love & Light, Frederik.

soup

09-16-2008, 08:11 PM

Degrees of gradual on a mass level may be somehow analogous to what can happen on an individual level, the idea that trauma can seem an evolutionary mechanism of sort, that it may be possible that people evolve through the stress and recovery cycles of trauma. This isn't to say that evolution isn't possible through other means, nor that the trauma is necessarily physical. Likewise, the idea that some sort of harvest takes place primarily in a space/time physical plane may be an illusion.

soup

in2it

09-20-2008, 07:54 PM

What kills me is that I used to think that the 'born agains' were complete & total lunatics and (actually I still do) but I kind of get where their ideas are coming from -so, now I feel more compassionate and kinder toward that. David's great science and metaphysical background is what has helped me get here. Listening to the dots get drawn toward ascension made a giant leap for me- otherwise it would have taken me literal -centuries. I did not come easily to the idea of ascension. I felt creeped out by it actually. But the thought does occur regularly that sometimes, someone can describe a thing, a feeling, a movie, a picture or event and no matter what, it doesn't truly explain the reality/experience in it's entirety. In fact, it's impossible ...remember the parable of the 7 blind men and the elephant? THAT is what I think is really going on here. We are tiny ants trying to understand that which is beyond our comprehension and ability to explain. But the basic idea is there and it kind of makes us nervous when we go around and around in those tiny mental circles.

Besides if we really knew the truth we would not know that we know until the future got here anyway. Sometimes trying too hard to understand is just a way of trying to control the uncontrollable. It makes you crazy and scared. Better to allow the spirit to inform daily and feel trust you are and will be in the perfect place to be...and understand as well.

The only thing left to do is just let go. Be a blissful tiny ant.
love and blessings.
in2it

soup

09-21-2008, 02:55 PM

The idea of circles in the mind remind me of cycles in the mind. In the Ra materials seems hints of Triadic Harmony, the idea of love/wisdom/power...

That reminds me of an idea shared in another group, the Star Tetrahedron of David....the points of the upward pointing tetrahedron representing say truth, love, understanding, openness....and the downward pointing as polarity antithesis which might be chosen to form viscious cycles of mind. The upward pointing tetrahedron was somehow connected to Toltec wisdom, the Four Agreements...though it may be that part of our lessons seems in making peace with the whole of our experience - maybe it's the polar opposites which we push off from that allows movement the other way.

soup

E.J.

10-08-2008, 05:02 PM

Rico, 3dSunset, et al.

To shed some light on this very important issue, and to answer Rico's question regarding Carla's opinion on the shift, please review my posts here from last summer:
http://www.divinecosmos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11312&page=2

This takes you to page two. Please also see my responses on page three.
I go into great detail comparing the Q'uo's responses to questions about the shift and Ra's responses.

If you aren't familiar, the Q'uo are a part of the Confederation of Planets in Service to the Infinite Creator along with Ra. Carla has been channeling them since the late 1980's/early 1990's. L/L Research, Carla's organization, has kept transcripts of the sessions through June 2008. You can find each specific session on their website www.llresearch.org.

The Q'uo have given responses that have implied a gradual transition to 4th density. However, they have also given responses that seem to fit the quantum shift theory.

My posts in the above thread will answer many of your questions. I highly recommend reading as much of the Q'uo material as you can. It is wonderful to still have that positive contact with the Confederation thirty years after Ra's original contact. There is much to learn.

I also offer my constructive criticism regarding David's excellent case for the quantum shift. I believe we must give equal weight to the Q'uo material and the Ra material, because they are definitely both Confederation, 100% positive, sources, and because Ra's responses simply did not supply enough info regarding the shift (probably because Ra needed to uphold the Law of Confusion). Of course, the Q'uo uphold it as well.

One last thing I would like to add regarding the Confederation contacts. David's contact - Ra - seems to be the same spirit whom Carla channeled. It is important that we also give weight to David's channeling as well. The bottom line here is that it is both quantum and gradual. Please see my posts!

Peace in the love and the light,
E.J.

soup

10-09-2008, 11:43 PM

for amusement i've been reading some of carlos casteneda's don juan wisdom. There seems to be a vocabulary used that could somehow overlay onto the law of one teachings. This type of pattern fitting, though abstract may offer a different perspective that for some people may be easier to assimilate.

For example the idea of shifting an assembage point by using intent in order to promote understanding which comes as byproduct of correspondance between inner and outer realities, seems very similar to the idea of the Disciplines of Personality where by way of balancing it seems possible to "shift" from an inferior static frame of reference to one which dynamically changes with environment in ways which promote quality of life.

soup

Destini

10-10-2008, 06:03 AM

I am very new to the site and I am so glad I am not alone. I have felt so lost for so long, thinking I was nuts or something. I have so much to say but for now I will express some of the things that has happen to me in the past few days and hopefully someone could give me some insight on what is happening to me.
1. For the past couple of years I am hearing sound waves, no I am not losing my hearing as a matter of a fact it has gotten so so much keener. my family says I have dog hearing(lol) can someone tell me what that is about?

2. I can see sound waves in the air. no I am not losing my sight. I recently had my sight and hearing checked and I am fine.

3. I had a dream just recently and in my dream I was half reptilian and something else not quit human. no I did not look like the ones on the net I have been checking, nothing quite like what I saw. There is more to this dream but it was not scary.

4. I also had a dream where I was in this strange room and the two individuals sat me in this chair and was pounding numbers, colors and shapes to me. I ask them what it meant and they kept demanding that I know what it all means and for me to remember, I felt like I was in this class room taking a test on something I have studied or should have known and have forgotten. Needless to say I do remember the dream because it was so demanding but still don’t understand what is it I am to remember or know. All I kept saying is WOW!!! those colors are so pretty and how can you put all those shapes in one it is so not logical, anyway that made them even more upset because I took what they were telling me so lightly.

5. I also believe I am a walk-in if anyone knows what that mean, I think it happen when I was (or she was) est. 5yrs of age. The info I have come across via the net states this happens in most case, when trauma occurs, well not in my case, so that statement is not always true. I am looking to find other walk-in's such as myself.

I have been having these strange dreams and stuff has been happening I don’t feel that comfortable discussing as of yet, fearing judgmental reaction.

P. S. I am not a fluke or someone looking for attention just someone trying to understand if this is a part of the shift.

Billuminous

10-26-2008, 02:09 PM

Perhaps, though, it is through the means of those with the doubly activated bodies, bridging the genetic gap between 3rd and 4th density, who provide 4D vehicles for those Earth 'natives' who become 4D harvestable.

If some are 'already' there, beginning the process of procreation, perhaps the populating of the newly 4D planet will be gradual, and those who are harvested in a massive, sudden event circa 2011 - 2013 may undergo a review of their entire sojourn in 3D in the 4D inner planes outside of the timeline as we understand it, yet incarnate into 4D Earth in a staggered manner, through time, as 4D vehicles become available.
-Mark

If Ra is to be believed, I believe Ra was referring to the hybrid breeding program so much discussed by researchers into the "abduction by aliens" phenomenon. If the research is to be believed, there seems to be consensus among these researchers that the development and perfection of this hybrid vehicle has been a gradual process spanning multiple generations within the targeted families.

jsnell26

11-13-2008, 03:02 AM

i've been thinking about this a lot lately: the gradual shift vs. sudden shift argument. there is a lot of evidence for both and each can be seen as the more reasonable event. for now, i don't see any reason to believe it's going to be a certain way. i am open to all possibilities. i cant say i wont be eager for something incredible come december 2012, but i wouldnt be surprised if there was not a 'quantum shift' in reality.

what ive realized is that the more i believe there will be a sudden shift, the less i want to be here living my life. work is boring, news is boring, family is boring, everyday is the same. i purposely sleep in because dreaming is fun and different.

my goal is to live my life as if we as humanity, must save ourselves and right the collective ship. it would be so much more rewarding if this is how the future plays out. we can reveal and end all government corruption, we can spread the hidden technology and free energy, we can feed the world and feed it REAL FOOD (not poison), we can rework our monetary system, we can create peace and freedom on earth. i sincerely believe this is within our power within this century.

a sudden shift in 2012 and a 3 way split of souls seems a little like a savior-type prediction. it takes the responsibility and pressure off of us to fix our own problems and creates a mindset of "well, 2012 is inevitable, so i can just do nothing and wait."

anyway, just throwing out some thoughts. this is my first real post on the DC forums. ive been on the AboveTopSecret forum for the past few weeks, and let me say, it is astounding how POSITIVE everyone is here!!! ive grown used to namecalling, and cussing out, and general childish behavior. as ive read through some threads here, there is such a supportive feel. every member is here to help each other. beautiful.:)

Earthcat

12-09-2008, 05:24 PM

The shift is gradual. It's happening. Their will be no "plucking" of souls.

Nancy

12-09-2008, 07:16 PM

Sanat

12-12-2008, 04:19 PM

In the book The Sun Also Rises, Hemingway paints a scenario where one of the key characters, Mike Campbell, is asked, "How did you go bankrupt?" His response is: "Gradually ... then suddenly."

"Gradually... then suddenly". This is how I see the whole Ascension process happening. The StO ET's have been working towards this Harvest for thousands of years already. Trying to maximize the positive Harvest. Untold numbers of Wanderers have incarnated upon this planet with important missions to serve mankind (contributing with great art/philosophy/science etc). The process can be visualized as an exponential curve, and we are very close to the point where that curve will shoot straight up into eternity.

"Normal" spiritual growth up the ladder of Consciousness also happens suddenly/spontaniously in leaps and bounds. One cannot "do" Love/Expansion/growth after all. But one can gradually prepare the ground and maximize the probability for it happening by practicing "spirituality/meditation" etc. These great Cycles leading up to a Great Harvest are thus gradually preparing the grounds for a whole Planet to take the sudden leap (theoretically we could perhaps say that if everything went "perfectly" it would be a 100% positive Harvest). However, in actual reality each individuals "free will" can retard/delay its own progress, and thus the Harvest is a mixed one like what we now face.

QUESTION: As this transition continues into 4th density activation, in order to inhabit this 4th density earth it will be necessary for all 3rd density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct? (B3, S63, 92)

RA: This is correct.

[NOTE: This is the most widely misunderstood quote in the Law of One series. Context reveals that Ra is referring to a transmutation, not any type of death as we would normally think of it. This is an ecstatic feeling — the most incredible moment of any lifetime you’ve ever had as a human being.

Elsewhere Ra says you CAN reconstitute your third-density body after this happens if you so choose — you simply have to focus on a "more difficult configuration" to get it back.

Through Wilcock, Ra further revealed that there will be an ET-assisted transition off of the Earth plane prior to the 20-degree polar realignment. This highly joyful and even ecstatic transition will not seem like death at all, even though the time of 3rd density incarnation will come to a natural and unseen end along the way.]

I think the very peak of the experience will be a total collapse of linear time into a "zero point" of ecstatic Oneness with All-that-is. A kind of "mass Satori" or mystical experience for everyone. RA also explains that none will live upon this plane anymore afterwards. The new planes are being crafted/forged and co-created from this one by us simpy being here. Most are unknowingly co-creating a new 3rd density plane for themselves, and many are co-creating the new 4th density (positive) plane.

Those going to the new 3rd density Earth plane will benefit greatly from this Ecstatic experience, and it will probably be a great inspiration (even if they do not remember it "consciously" it will work and inspire on a deeper level) to many people as they get a "fresh start" there. I also follow David in that many people will be taken to "midway station" before going to the 4th density Earth plane. Many Wanderers will simply return to their respective families/realms when their mission here is over. Not all Wanders will go to the new 4th density as many are already of higher densities than that.

Aiming to "survive" 2012 as so many people seem to be doing, is to miss the point and opportunity in my opinion. Trying to "survive life" is based upon a deep misunderstanding of what life is about.

Love and gratitude,

Sanat

TMS

12-16-2008, 06:46 AM

I like your analogy about the gradual then sudden. But I would like to understand a few of your statements above because i either can't find them in the Law of One or I have missed them.

For example:
Those going to the new 3rd density Earth plane will benefit greatly from this Ecstatic experience, and it will probably be a great inspiration (even if they do not remember it "consciously" it will work and inspire on a deeper level) to many people as they get a "fresh start" there.

From what i have read Earth is not going to be 3rd density, Earth will be 4th density positive. Those not able to ascend to 4th will be moved to another 3rd density planet. Those not 4th density positive will be going to another 4th density negative.

Many Wanderers will simply return to their respective families/realms when their mission here is over. Not all Wanders will go to the new 4th density as many are already of higher densities than that.

This is a point I have wondered about but i don't see it specifically stated in the Law of One that about wanderers not going to 4th density.

T.

Sanat

12-16-2008, 10:07 AM

Everything is subject to personal interpretation as everything is "creative". I offer my interpretation of things based on the RA material. No more and no less. Many Wanderers are from higher densities than the 4th, it would be logical to conclude that these will not have to go through 4th density cycle again.

PriestOfLight

02-24-2009, 09:14 PM

I have thought about this subject and I have no fear of what is to come, but I believe when we talk about the 2012 change I now feel the biggest change we will have is going to be in our consciousness. And if anything, we are creating our future now. It says some of DW's blogs using the time travel machines that no one can see passed 2012. I have read many books and meditated, and a whole slew of things. My collective knowledge from these things lead me to believe that we are creating our future. It is being decided with every thought we have.

If the negative elite can instill fear, then they can create a century of slaves..

But if we collectively wish there to be an age of peace and love, we can steer our thoughts in that direction and it will be created as such.

I would also contend that there are other outcomes also, but in the end, it is our collective consciousness that will determine what occurs.

As far as ascension, it's our consciousness that will ascend or be raised. Our bodies will most likely remain the same (thought personally I am hoping to lose a few pounds). The Mayan elders have stated similiar things and have even come forward and said them publically. Not alot of attention is being paid to the words they are saying though. But they seem to align with what I have gathered.

Love and Light

Paul

Blacksunshine

02-25-2009, 09:45 AM

I love all the responses, thank you all for sharing.

I feel that we have had a sort of "warning" or "hey, here we go!" but i often wonder if it is becuase I am aware of all that is happening. To me it is easy to notice, the rush of things (or so it often feels) and i feel a heightened emotion to things as of very recently. Which has been such a connection to my intuition, and my surroundings, that at times it almost feels overwhelming, being that I'm not psychic, and I often end up feeling alone, becuase I really feel at times that I'm being pulled in a million directions...as if peopel are starting to realize that there is change on the horizon, so lets rush all this in order to not have it blow in our face. While I sit here, almost laughing and almost crying. I think positioning in place and time is a huge factor, in this as well. As all this is happening and I'm also in the brunt of my saturn return (with 30 only a few months away) I have really really felt the change of energy, as well as the change in myself, and it's been quite crazy.

As for the actual date of 2012, I'm fine and comfy with either path that this particular event takes place, wether it be a slow transition, or a quick bite, I'm fine, because I'm prepaired, and very excited to go there. I love it here, I always have, and I always will, but I honestly feel, at this time, that I"m quite ready to "go home" as well. I miss something that I dont understand, and at this time, I have really never felt so lost in my life. Yet at the same time, I have a confidence, and a passion that is so strong...yet I really (at this time) cant quite figure out how to practice it...it's always been so easy, but the past year....wow, what a different story.

I really dont know where, why, how, what...any of it. I just know, that as the days approach I get more and more excited, but it comes along side, with trying to do as much as I can to live, learn, and love, here. It's all quite fascinating, and I often feel quite lucky and blessed that I was givin the oppertunity be be here in this "time." Becuase it's an amazing vibration to feel.

I dont really have any quotes, or facts to back up what I say, but I feel it comming. I am also very lucky and blessed to have a forum, and books to read and help "ground" in such crazy and transformative times, and again, I spread my thanks to all whom contribute and share.

Deambor

02-25-2009, 08:05 PM

HI, everyone. Here is a great discourse from Q'uo of Sep 27, 2008 regarding the time and the nature of the shift:
T3 asks, “Is it likely that this timeframe of December 21, 2012, give or take, will be delayed by an increase in positive polarity? And if delayed, is the length of delay likely to be negligible?”
We are those of Q’uo, and are aware of your query. There are two layers to that query and we would answer both of them. Firstly, in terms of the planetary situation, there is no variance possible in the turning of the age. It is a mathematical, geometrical design that works like a clock. When the age is done, another age moves in and this is what is occurring with Planet Earth at this time. This will indeed occur, as you say, in 2011, 2012, in that vicinity. We would be delighted to be completely accurate but although the mathematics of Planet Earth turn to a specific date of December 21, 2012, there are metaphysical corrections to be made to the Earthly mathematics which indicate that the clock will turn somewhat before that, somewhere in the summer preceding the winter solstice of 2012.
Be that as it may, this is only one layer of our answer. What impacts the questioner, and all of those upon Planet Earth, far more is the harvest that is occurring concomitantly with this turning of the age. The harvest has already begun. It began in your year 1987 in that period called “Harmonic Convergence.” [4] Entities began being harvested when they died from the physical at that time. All were offered the steps of light. Many of those you now call “Indigo Children” are those who have graduated from Planet Earth in the positive sense, have now gone on to acquaint themselves with their new fourth-density homes and have asked for permission to return to third density as wanderers.
The concern here is duple. Firstly, the wanderers wish to lighten the consciousness of the planet that there may be the largest possible harvest upon Planet Earth at this time. They are aware, once they have entered fourth density and have been able to look at the situation from a larger point of view, that one person can make a difference by the way he thinks and by the way he lives. So they have given up their newly won fourth-density living to come back to what this instrument would call “spiritual boot camp” in order to get into the thick of the fray and, in the heart of disharmony, create harmony; in the heart of fear, create love; in the heart of judgment, create compassion.
There is another powerful motive for such entities to return to third-density Planet Earth, and that is the love and concern that they feel for Gaia, Planet Earth herself. There is much restitution that can be made: trees planted, wastes cleansed, habits changed, so that the earth begins to thrive and people begin to live with the earth instead of on the earth. These motives are powerful in bringing many new wanderers to Planet Earth.
As wanderers have come in to Planet Earth for incarnation, and as the population of the planet from whatever source has slowly begun to hunger and thirst for the new paradigm of love and understanding, the Earth has been able to take hold and to respond to this lightening that is ongoing. It is easy to look at the many extreme weather problems that your globe has been experiencing and cry doom, but we would suggest to you that these frequent catastrophes are a very good sign. They are the sign that Planet Earth has regained enough strength to do the balancing that she must do in order to absorb and eliminate this aggressive and hostile energy that has been pumped into her for so long, in stages, rather than all at once.
You will notice that the magnetic change that needed to be made has not been made by a pole shift, but rather has been made by small increments and even now, magnetic north, as this instrument would call it, is almost precisely at the place it needs to be in order to welcome fourth density.
Thusly, we may say that indeed, in terms of the harvesting being prolonged past 2012, this was always a possibility if a pole shift did not have to occur, and it is now a near certainty, since the lightening of the planet has continued to take place, mostly unnoticeably and beneath the radar of politics and the larger consciousness of the society as a whole.
However, when one pulls the attention away from the news, which focuses upon those in power and those who have caused destruction and points it at the home front, at friends and neighbors and the local situation, we would suggest that you can find good things happening everywhere, people caring for and loving each other and reaching out to each other in kindness and compassion.
This means that each who is hearing these words or who may read them shall undoubtedly be able to live their incarnation through and be, at the end of it, invited to walk those steps of light that the harvest times offer to souls who seek the one infinite Creator.

MarkM

03-01-2009, 06:20 PM

I don't know is the shift is gradual or instantaneous. It's beyond my understanding. My knowing or not knowing won't have any effect one way or the other.

In the meantime, there are souls who need us to lighten their load so that they too can embrace this time in history.

Feed the hungry. Offer solace to the grieving. Clothe the needy. Smile at the stranger. Graciously and generously contribute to the well being of those you meet.

We are watched over by those on high and in turn we can follow their example down here below.

Nancy in Oregon

This kinda sums it up for me, thanks Nancy!

I find myself personally uninvested in how the shift comes about; really, all the action is here and now, in terms of what's more important for me to place my attention and energy on.

I do, though, think of what is given by Ra and Q'uo as regard's humanity's insatiable curiosity about the timeline and mechanics of the shift. The Confederation light workers do seem to value our freewill/right to be in confusion, and I really doubt that you will get anything definitive in the way of an answer as to the sudden vs. gradual discussion.

Let's take the passage from Q'uo above:

This means that each who is hearing these words or who may read them shall undoubtedly be able to live their incarnation through and be, at the end of it, invited to walk those steps of light that the harvest times offer to souls who seek the one infinite Creator.

Seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it? Has Q'uo decided to unequivocably come clean about 2012, and tell us that 3D human presence shall continue past this time?

I've read a lot of the discussion on this and other boards, and this does seem to be the prevailing feeling. Yet I wonder if Q'uo is artfully protecting our free will by omitting something which doesn't seem to get much mention in these discussions of ours, and that is the concept arrived at by David Wilcock and Scott Mandelker.

This is the observation that DW is at pains to point out as having creedence lent to it by modern cutting edge science - that our basic 3D human experience of the earth-plane includes the concept of space/time vs. time/space.

Space/time is our native experiencing of physicality on Earth, whereas time/space can be looked at as the 'afterlife' levels of earth-plane 3D experience. David has posited a concept of Earth-humanity being 're-loaded', ala the Matrix, into time/space, and thus able to live out it's respective incarnations in third density - quite possibly unaware that anything has changed, much as you are often unaware of when you're dreaming.

As far as I know, the transmissions through Carla from the Ra or from Q'uo have never cleared up this distinction, and stated unequivocably that the full continuing incarnative experiencing of Earth-humanity will occur here in space/time beyond 2011/2012. All the same, I don't believe an undistorted and positive communication from the Confederation would offer anything concrete as to specific future events. Thus, much is left for mankind to potentially fill in for himself through scientific and philosophical enquiry.

Still, I'm not too concerned - I imagine my poor old 3D intellect is more geared to present day concerns of living and loving!:p Mark

ETguy

03-01-2009, 06:44 PM

It seems to me that Ra, Q'uo and the other channeled entities are pretty vague regarding this upcoming harvest. It really seems like you can't get a straight answer out of them.
What we know is this:

Fact #1) Around 2011-2012, the Earth will be fourth density activated. They're pretty clear on this, example:

The fourth density is, as we have said, as regularized in its approach as the striking of a clock upon the hour

Fact #2) Third and fourth density can't co-exist. This is because young fourth density entities are unable to properly cloak themselves from third density entities in the vicinity, among other things. Fourth density entities being visible would very likely infringe upon the free will of the nearby third density entities.

So there are basically two things that can happen based on those two pieces of information:

Possibility #1) Earth is fourth density activated in 2011-2012, however fourth density is not inhabited. This is to allow the third density entities to live out their incarnations naturally. Once all third density entities have completed their incarnations, the fourth density part of the Earth will finally be populated.

Possibility #2) Earth is fourth density activated in 2011-2012, while at the same time third density deactivated. This would mean that our modern society would end abruptly. There are varying theories on how this "end" is going to happen.

Theory A of pos. #2) Sudden quick uplifting. All inhabitants of the earth is spontaneously "zapped" into the afterlife plane at a specific time. I don't know if this afterlife plane is time/space or the astral plane or something else. I need to do some more research on this topic myself. What's important is that it's a completely non-traumatic positive experience.

Theory B of pos. #2) Biblical collapse of society. The Earth is devastated by wars, famine, natural disasters and general collapse. An eventual ascension to fourth density occurs only after the third density body has died "naturally" (war or famine would be a "natural" death in this case) and passed on to the afterlife plane for review. This is obviously the least attractive option, because no one wants to die painfully.

Possibility #3) I know I said that there were only two possibilities, but I think this possibility needs to be considered: Nothing happens at all in 2011-2012. Life goes on. I think a lot of people on this site, including me, are consciously or subconsciously looking for a way to escape reality. This is why the 2012 topic has become so popular. A lot of people don't like their everyday lives at all, and escape into the paranormal and mystical.

However, I don't think anyone can deny that there are climate changes as well as a serious "global financial crisis" going on. What's interesting about this is that Ra foresaw these things in the early 80's, long before these things started happening seriously as they are now. It's fascinating to see these things unfolding now in early 2009, which is dead on to the climactic 2011-2012 date given by Ra almost 30 years ago.

EDIT:

It is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years.

Well I guess that pretty much settles it. According to Q'uo, we'll be able to live on perfectly happy in third density for another 100 years. But I'm curious about what happens to the Wanderers.

According to Scott Mandelker, Wanderers are supposed to go home when fourth density is activated. How does that happen, are we going to see people disappear into thin air? There are hundreds of millions of Wanderers on Earth right now, so that's a significant amount of people who's just going to have to vanish somehow. Any ideas?

EDIT #2:
Sorry about all the edits, but this really got me thinking. Q'uo does not specify where in third density we will keep on existing post-2012. Is it possible that we'll go to some other plane like the astral plane or time/space? If third density entities move to the astral plane after Earth is fourth-density active, that would still technically be an incarnation, albeit drastically different. Again, Q'uo is following the trend of not giving a straight answer... I get the impression that Ra, Q'uo etc. are prevented from telling it like it is. Something doesn't quite add up, it doesn't make sense for everything to continue as usual in space/time after the Earth has been building up to the Harvest for almost a hundred years.

Deambor

03-02-2009, 12:02 PM

As wanderers have come in to Planet Earth for incarnation, and as the population of the planet from whatever source has slowly begun to hunger and thirst for the new paradigm of love and understanding, the Earth has been able to take hold and to respond to this lightening that is ongoing. It is easy to look at the many extreme weather problems that your globe has been experiencing and cry doom, but we would suggest to you that these frequent catastrophes are a very good sign. They are the sign that Planet Earth has regained enough strength to do the balancing that she must do in order to absorb and eliminate this aggressive and hostile energy that has been pumped into her for so long, in stages, rather than all at once.
You will notice that the magnetic change that needed to be made has not been made by a pole shift, but rather has been made by small increments and even now, magnetic north, as this instrument would call it, is almost precisely at the place it needs to be in order to welcome fourth density.

I do't think Ra and Q'uo are avoiding the answer of the nature of the shift. In cases when they can't answer, they just say so. There is no hidden agenda with them.

I think this quote from Q'uo is very clarifying - they are saying that things are changing -magnetic shift is made by small increments and adjustments, rather than one grand pole shift.
Interestingly they are very specific about 1987 - the year of the beginning of the harvest into 4D positive.
Q'uo's answers on 2012 have been pretty specific, more specific than Ra's answers back in the 80s.
I personally prefer to go by the most recent stuff, as things do change, as we all know.

Love to all

Deambor

FooSnik

03-05-2009, 10:58 AM

From ETGuy:

According to Scott Mandelker, Wanderers are supposed to go home when fourth density is activated. How does that happen, are we going to see people disappear into thin air? There are hundreds of millions of Wanderers on Earth right now, so that's a significant amount of people who's just going to have to vanish somehow. Any ideas?

This is what I am saying! This, unless I misunderstood, is basically what DW is saying will happen. As much as I like and respect DW and his work I just can't fathom this happening.

But I have heard of the Nexus point theory which sounds reasonable. In metaphysics it is commonly accepted that all past and future realities, both for ourselves and the collective world's path, already exist in a giant tangled ball of parallel dimensions and life paths. Every time a person makes a choice in life you embark on that life path and the other life path splits off and continues in another parallel dimension. Same goes for the collective decisions we make in our collective society. Though we are not consciously aware of the parallel dimensions they do exist. So with all the decisions we make just in a day let alone a lifetime you can imagine that it would amount to an enormous tangled mess of life lines and dimensions but there are things called Nexus points which cross over all our potential life lines. It could be a major event of some kind or a person you are meant to meet but no matter what decisions you previously made this event will happen. Whatever you choose to do once this event arrives is completely up to you and your free will but this event was planned and will happen none the less. So it is one theory that 2012 is the biggest Nexus point the Earth has ever seen and it crosses over every single possible life path we could be on both collectively and individually. So what may seem like a non-event may actually be a huge event on levels that the human conscious mind doesn't pick up on. According to our frequency of vibration, we will be compatible with the 4D+ parallel reality or the 3D/4D- parallel reality. The thing with these parallel realities/dimensions is that you wouldn't even notice that you are in a parallel reality because all the same players are present.

Interesting huh?

ETguy

03-05-2009, 05:09 PM

Yeah, that is interesting. But I think it's important not to overcomplicate things.
AFAIK, DW says that at a certain point around 2011-2012, we'll just instantly zap out of our bodies into the astral plane, and become mind/spirit complexes instead of mind/body/spirit complexes. He also says that the 100-150 years "transition period" that Q'uo and Ra talks about is actually in the afterlife planes/astral planes and not actually in our earthly chemical bodies. To me, this sounds pretty far out to be honest.

But you have to look at the facts: Ra says that fourth density will instantly be activated around 2011 [moderator wishes to add that this is incorrect-Ra stated that the earth itself was already in 4th density in 1981-it was the humans who weren't], and that the general problems we are experiencing right now with the climate, economy and politics is Earth's way of cleansing herself before that activation. Ra also says that third and fourth density are "electrically incompatible". Ra makes Harvest sound like a spontaneous event.
I do still feel that Ra and Q'uo speaks of this "Harvest" in a cloud of mystery.

They're giving us hints by saying things like:

(ETguy comment: They're talking about a machine used for healing people.)

Questioner: Would there be any value to the people of this planet now to complete this machine?

Ra: I am Ra. The harvest is now. There is not at this time any reason to include efforts along these distortions toward longevity, but rather to encourage distortions toward seeking the heart of self, for this which resides clearly in the violet-ray energy field will determine the harvesting of each mind/body/spirit complex.

(ETguy comment: This supports DW's statement of continuing as a mind/spirit complex, or spirit, in the afterlife planes. Except for "live out their current incarnations". What does Q'uo define as an incarnation?)

Q'uo: It is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years.

Beam me up, Scotty! :D

FIIISH

03-05-2009, 11:13 PM

The one thing that is very clear and real to me, is that our
survival is guaranteed. Our consciousness will continue no
matter what happens.

Everything else is a bridge that will be crossed when it is
happened upon.

FooSnik

03-06-2009, 07:18 AM

Yeah, that is interesting. But I think it's important not to overcomplicate things.
AFAIK, DW says that at a certain point around 2011-2012, we'll just instantly zap out of our bodies into the astral plane, and become mind/spirit complexes instead of mind/body/spirit complexes. He also says that the 100-150 years "transition period" that Q'uo and Ra talks about is actually in the afterlife planes/astral planes and not actually in our earthly chemical bodies. To me, this sounds pretty far out to be honest.

But you have to look at the facts: Ra says that fourth density will instantly be activated around 2011 [moderator wishes to add that this is incorrect-Ra stated that the earth itself was already in 4th density in 1981-it was the humans who weren't], and that the general problems we are experiencing right now with the climate, economy and politics is Earth's way of cleansing herself before that activation. Ra also says that third and fourth density are "electrically incompatible". Ra makes Harvest sound like a spontaneous event.
I do still feel that Ra and Q'uo speaks of this "Harvest" in a cloud of mystery.

They're giving us hints by saying things like:

Beam me up, Scotty! :D

Yeah I see what you are saying there. If Q'uo didn't throw in "in terms of spirit" I could have easily taken it as supporting the slow gradual process of change. I am not sure what he/she meant by that.

But with the note from moderator that we have been in 4D since '81, it all seems to be stacking up to the fact that we will be harvested after we die. It is less important to try to prolong our lives as it is to do the serious spiritual growth.

So the only issue I have my eye on now is, according to some theories of the Mayan calendar, how time is speeding up.

Thank you, everyone! I think I needed to clear that up for myself more than I realized.

:D

FIIISH

03-06-2009, 01:18 PM

It is less important to try to prolong our lives as it is to do the serious spiritual growth.

I agree completely. Comprehensive survival strategies detailing every
possible contingency seem useless and futile to me.

I am confident that I will continue to be where I can do the most good
for myself, and others. When the time comes that my purpose
here is served, I am ready to move on.

Steady progression of detachment from this density has
already been commenced.

FooSnik

03-06-2009, 09:50 PM

I agree completely. Comprehensive survival strategies detailing every
possible contingency seem useless and futile to me.

I am confident that I will continue to be where I can do the most good
for myself, and others. When the time comes that my purpose
here is served, I am ready to move on.

Steady progression of detachment from this density has
already been commenced.

Agreed.

Some people think I am crazy for living in NYC right now but I don't care. I was drawn to this place at this time. And if I die right now I die feeling like I did not back down from the things that challenged me.

They say that when people are on their death bed they are most regretful for the things they did not do far more then the things they did.

Peace to you FIIISH!

911aware

12-29-2009, 03:28 PM

AFAIK, DW says that at a certain point around 2011-2012, we'll just instantly zap out of our bodies into the astral plane

well damn, i was hoping for a gradual transfiguration.

Perseus

01-29-2010, 02:02 PM

I was hoping for gradual too, I feel we would need some serious changes within our political structures etc... And for people to have more heart for this to happen.

I definately need a respite from 3D......

Jenkins

01-29-2010, 09:29 PM

Both Ra and Q'uo don't seem to give any definitive answer as to whether the shift will be gradual or a sudden event, the case can be made for both sides. Personally, I think both may be right. It's can be both gradual and sudden.

We are in the gradual part right now and have been for quite some time. However, as time continues to move forward change seems to move at a faster and faster pace. At some point in that 2011-2013 time period I think there will be so much change happening in shorter and shorter amounts of time that the shift will seem quite sudden when it happens.

riCo

01-31-2010, 10:43 AM

Hi guys,

I just took a more deeper look at David`s article about the Law of One and 2012 and found something that I didn`t realize so far...

Now maybe some of you have made this connection already, but to me it is quite profound and puts things into a very clear perspective.

I took a look at the following quote from David`s article:

Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest will occur in the year 2,011, or will it be spread?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest [Ascension].
Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest [Ascension].

Now I was wondering, why the Questioner asks Ra specifically if the harvest will occur in the year 2011, while in his time it is just 1981, it just wasn`t clear to me, where he got the date of 2011 from.

And then I took a look at the following quote:

Ra: I am Ra. This inconvenience, or disharmonious vibratory complex, has begun several of your years in the past. It shall continue unabated for a period of approximately three oh -- thirty -- of your years. [1981+30= 2011]
Questioner: After this period of thirty years I am assuming that this will be a fourth-density planet. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is so.

Questioner: Is it possible to estimate what percent of the present population will inhabit the fourth-density planet?

Ra: The harvesting is not yet, thus, estimation is meaningless.

I never made this connection, but the fact that the Questioner asks specifically if the harvest will occur in 2011 and Ra answering that this is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest connects these two quotes with each other, as if he asked those questions in one session.

The questioner remembers Ra talking about the inconveniences continuing for thirty years, which leads him to the year 2011, and Ra must know that, by asking especially for the year 2011 that the questioner refers to one of his previous messages and in response Ra answers as if those questions were asked right after another.

Because in reality the quote with the inconveniences was in Session 6 and the question about the harvest occuring in 2011 was much later in Session 17.

Now if one looks at each quote seperately they might not be so convincing for everyone yet, but if you connect these two quotes it is quite clear what Ra wants to tell us.

After the period of thirty years the inconveniences will stop and at this time earth will be a fourth-density planet. It is impossible to say what percentage will inhabit this fourth-density planet at this point, because the harvest is not yet (in 1981), thus estimation is meaningless.

Now adding the other quote Ra says, that the year 2011 is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for the harvest. This connects the point of earth becoming a fourth-density planet directly with the harvest, Ra wants to tell us that those two events are directly connected, when earth becomes a fourth-density planet, the harvest will occur.
The harvest will not be spread, it will occur at one point, it is one event, where "everyone is harvested regardless of their progress" and even those will be included "who are not in incarnation at this time".

I just wanted to add my new perspective on this whole subject and hope this information may give you a clearer view on this topic.

Love and Light, Frederik

evolving

01-31-2010, 03:34 PM

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation.We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. The harvest will not be spread, it will occur at one point, it is one event, where "everyone is harvested regardless of their progress" and even those will be included "who are not in incarnation at this time".

Hello brother, the thirty years from 1981 was an approximation. The unapproximated date of harvest is Dec 21, 2012.

Things have though changed considerably since then, and I would suggest reading some of the last few years transcripts with The Principle of Q'uo (made up of Ra, Latwii, and Hatonn) where they note these differences. These transcripts number in the hundreds, and while the Ra Materials laid the foundation, these transcripts build the bridge from then until now. I could short story tell you what they say, but I would not do them justice, so I will leave it to you to read them in your own time and come to your own conclusions :)

Here is the link. http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/transcripts_toc_year.aspx

Enjoy!

docholiday

01-31-2010, 06:52 PM

I have one more question for y'all. Wouldn't a sudden event be an infraction on people's free will? Free will, from what I understand, is one of the primary universal laws in which people have the right to live out their lives however they choose, be it service to self or others. Wouldn't a sudden event in which people are forced to change their ways or face the consequences be a violation of this very important universal law? It kind of sounds fascist and controlling to force everyone to be one way or the other or face grave consequences, doesn't it?

Hello Foosink

It appears that both the law of one and Mr. Wilcock are very clear that the ascension event will be a sudden miraculous event where this planet will be making a full quantum shift into fourth density with a concurrent complete redistribution of souls based on frequency and orientation (service to self or service to others).

I do not see this a violation of our free will or a violation of anything - rather it is simply the rules of the game as they have been established by our particular logi. In regards to humanities free will: According to the Law of one, our Logi has established, through its own free will, that a soul has three ~ 25,000 year cycles to use her free will to raise her spirit frequency to that commensurate with the next level (in our case, fourth density). Doesn't this sound like a very generous amount of time to use our free will in order to get our ****e together for advancement :)? If a soul doesn't progress - our logi, through its own free will, has established a pattern that will make the necessary changes.

The sources listed above have altruistically provided all who make the effort with a tremendous means: 1. To understand what the game of life is all about
2. To thoroughly understand the rules of the game
3. And they have even been so kind as to provide us with a detailed instruction manual on how best to play it. I think this knowledge can be both empowering and motivating.

blessings

luke

maryv

02-02-2010, 09:46 AM

riCo

02-03-2010, 12:26 PM

Since I`m at the moment reading the whole Law of One series again, in particular the transcripts of the audio tapes, I came across another small but significant quote concerning the harvest being very soon in relation to our current time.

Questioner: Is it possible for you to use as an example our General Patton and tell me the effect that war had on him in his development?

Ra: I am Ra. This will be the last full question of this working. The one of whom you speak, known as George, was one in whom the programming of previous incarnations had created a pattern or inertia which was irresistible in its incarnation in your time/space. This entity was of a strong yellow ray activation with frequent green ray openings and occasional blue ray openings. However, it did not find itself able to break the mold of previous traumatic experiences of a bellicose nature.
This entity polarized somewhat towards the positive in its incarnation due to its singleness of belief in truth and beauty. This entity was quite sensitive. It felt a great honor/duty to the preservation of that which was felt by the entity to be true, beautiful, and in need of defense. This entity perceived itself a gallant figure. It polarized somewhat towards the negative in its lack of understanding the green ray it carried with it, rejecting the forgiveness principle which is implicit in universal love.
The sum total of this incarnation vibrationally was a slight increase in positive polarity but a decrease in harvestability due to the rejection of the Law or Way of Responsibility; that is, seeing universal love, yet still it fought on.

Questioner: Do we have enough time for me to ask if the death, almost immediately after the cessation of the war of this entity—could that have been so that it could be immediately reincarnated to possibly make harvest?

Ra: I am Ra. This is precisely correct.

I took a look at Wikipedia and saw that this General George Patton died on December 21st, 1945.

So Ra states, that this entity had to die immediately after the cessation of the war, in order to immediately reincarnate and become harvestable.

Now I know that this quote can be interpreted in more than one way, but I feel some urgency embedded in this message and not in a sense that this entity has time to live two or even more lifetimes up to the harvest, but has just one last chance to become harvestable.