4D on

[Understanding]

I have a question. When we enter the 4th dimension Do we die? Do we have to incarnate 100 of times in the 4th dimension Then spirtually awaken again until we enter then 5th dimension? and the 6th and so on? Did ra say anything about this?

[SuperManny]

Ra is somewhat vague about this, but it sounds to me like we do need the physical body to die for this process to complete.

I had previously been studying other sources that say the physical body does not need to die; it can be transformed, or transmuted into a higher vibration. But Ra simply says, that we "will die according to third-density necessities." Here's more;Questioner: ... I am trying to understand how this transition takes place from third to fourth-density. I will take the example of one of these entities of which we are speaking who is now in a third-density body. He will grow older and then will it be necessary that he die from the third-density physical body and reincarnate in a fourth-density body for that transition?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation. It will be noted that the entities birthing these fourth-density entities experience a great feeling of, shall we say, the connection and the use of spiritual energies during pregnancy. This is due to the necessity for manifesting the double body.
This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.
To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third-density necessities.
Questioner: The— you are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth-density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

[onething]

It seems to me that Ra indicated we would spend a very long time in each density and would have a 90,000 year lifetime in 4th density. It seems I read that his planet moved into 4th density a couple of million years ago, and now he is a 6th density being. I'm in no hurry, myself. But I do have some questions, and some resistance to a few things about the Ra material and the ascension.

For the most part, the positive outlook here has been very uplifting to me, and I look forward to 2012. But lately I have been finding myself a bit disappointed at the layout. I had been a believer in the Yogananda/Yuktaswar system of yugas, in which we are transitioning out of kali yuga, the most negative, and back up into a golden age over the course of several thousand years, with a kickstart around 2012. Also, I do think there is a lot of evidence for past golden ages. In other words, it doesn't need to be like this, even on 3rd density, all the time. Right now the level of corruption, deception and oppression are quite extreme, and it seems a shame that the minute we 'get it together' we have to die and live in the astral world. The astral world is OK, I guess, but I think it would have been more fun to see the process of solving our problems and having a society of beauty and quality and health.

I always thought that the fun of this life is taken out because we are so afraid of death and take it too seriously. But wouldn't it be grand to have a semi-enlightened population of spiritually seeking humans living a good life and creating a paradise on earth?

And closely related to this is my own personal eden, my land that I visit whenever I can with my husband and we mutually look forward to transitioning there and just making it more and more of a garden. It was originally my Y2K refuge, and then my 2012-crash of civilization refuge, and also where I want to live as soon as I can (very rural there, not many jobs). To think that we have only 5 years left, and at least two before we can move there, makes me sad.

[charles obscure]

It seems to me that Ra indicated we would spend a very long time in each density and would have a 90,000 year lifetime in 4th density. It seems I read that his planet moved into 4th density a couple of million years ago, and now he is a 6th density being. I'm in no hurry, myself. But I do have some questions, and some resistance to a few things about the Ra material and the ascension.

For the most part, the positive outlook here has been very uplifting to me, and I look forward to 2012. But lately I have been finding myself a bit disappointed at the layout. I had been a believer in the Yogananda/Yuktaswar system of yugas, in which we are transitioning out of kali yuga, the most negative, and back up into a golden age over the course of several thousand years, with a kickstart around 2012. Also, I do think there is a lot of evidence for past golden ages. In other words, it doesn't need to be like this, even on 3rd density, all the time. Right now the level of corruption, deception and oppression are quite extreme, and it seems a shame that the minute we 'get it together' we have to die and live in the astral world. The astral world is OK, I guess, but I think it would have been more fun to see the process of solving our problems and having a society of beauty and quality and health.

I always thought that the fun of this life is taken out because we are so afraid of death and take it too seriously. But wouldn't it be grand to have a semi-enlightened population of spiritually seeking humans living a good life and creating a paradise on earth?

And closely related to this is my own personal eden, my land that I visit whenever I can with my husband and we mutually look forward to transitioning there and just making it more and more of a garden. It was originally my Y2K refuge, and then my 2012-crash of civilization refuge, and also where I want to live as soon as I can (very rural there, not many jobs). To think that we have only 5 years left, and at least two before we can move there, makes me sad.

I see where you're coming from, but the way I see it is since we have not yet experienced 4th density, it might be kind of short sighted to hope for a golden age in 3rd density over the coming golden age in 4th, considering 4th density is completely beyond the limits of our understanding. To say 'the astral world is ok I guess' without any true understanding of what you are talking about, is to remain attached to an illusion, without the true humility required of what it is awaiting. To make a crude analogy its like saying 'that fishing rod is ok I guess, but I prefer my piece of fish'.

Yes there have been other 3rd density societies with less intense catalyst than ours such as Ra's civilization, but even in those they struggled with their share of hardship, and if you are refferring to the golden age of Atlantis on this planet that so called golden age ended with fighting and destruction. Basically we are wired to accept our surroundings and feel attached to them, despite all of the suffering we go through in 3rd density. If you read through testimony's of some who have had near death experiences or died and came back, it will reinforce the idea that there is something a lot better awaiting. The last account I read of a near death experience the person who died likened the period of leaving 3rd density as 'ceasing to be hit constantly with a hammer in the spiritual sense'.

I can assure you with 100% certainty that if you experienced 4th density for even a moment, you would not desire a golden age in 3rd density over 4th. The only way you would want to come back is if you were karmically bound, or had further lessons to experience.

[Understanding]

I guess it depends on what you read. I always thought we would live the 4th density on earth and heal it and ourselves...that is what I interpreted from a lot of the sources I read. I guess the Kali Yuga has a different explanation. What did Ra have to say about this?

[onething]

Hi Charles, and Understanding

Yes, I do understand your points. Doesn't it seem a bit odd, though, that there is no time of 'success' as 3rd density beings - the only success is to be harvested from 3rd density?
It's not that I have some negative idea about 4th density. I resonate to the ascension idea a lot. But in some way being plucked out of a 3rd density crisis and plopped into superherohood is a bit anticlimatic.

On the other hand, it had occured to me before finding DW that the combination of evil inclinations in even a smallish percentage of the population combined with civilization MUST lead inevitably to a crisis. It's just a matter of time. (I had been wondering why the Biblical predictions hit it on the head.) So perhaps the resolution of the crisis IS to achieve 4th density. In fact, that is making more sense to me right this minute, because my own greatly increased insight into these things is precisely due to spiritual growth, increased spiritual vision, which coincides with a falling away of delusion, and of being easily deluded. Which, if people were not easily deluded, our world would not be in the situation that it is.

I think what's bothering me is just simply that 5 years is a short time, and I was just really looking forward to moving to my land in West Virginia and planting flower beds, making trails, rock walls, herb garden, fruit trees, meditation spot and pond by the spring...that sort of thing.

If it is really so that all will come to an abrupt change in 5 years, then my kids should drop out of college and just hang out...yet it would be a little crazy to do that, wouldn't it?

As for me, if I think there will be this abrupt change in 5 years, then rather than make sensible plans for my old age and saving some money now and so on, I would just move there and be poor but enjoy my place while it lasts.

I can just imagine that if 2012 blows over then I might regret a premature move and be unable to cope well with old age because I didn't work long enough.

In fact, I am a nurse and I think that our medical establishment, esp. the cancer industry, is about as corrupt as any illuminati that David talks about - and I am thinking to become a massage therapist instead. But it would involve spending 5-10K and taking almost a year off of regular life, having my husband support me through that, and it would still not be done for about 2 years. If it is all going to be overturned in 5 years, there just isn't much point. But if life will go on as before, it would be a great move because my heart is not in the modern medicine pathway.

I guess the yuga idea is more of a cyclical one. And I mention it because David is well aware of it and talks of it in his stuff.

[Chris Hamilton]

Hello everyone,

I am not picking one person out here, mind you:). The Law of One Thread is intended for those who have read the books and can comment on how they interpret Law of One subjects. If you have not read the books and are simply interjecting thoughts, then this is something that should be re-directed to another thread. It doesn't mean that your posts are not valuable, just that they do not fit into the Law of One Thread. This is also not the thread to ask questions about Law of One and not attempt to read the books yourself.

The Law of One thread is for those who are reading the books and asking questions about what they are reading, or those who have read many times and want to discuss interpretation of the books. Thank you, Chris

[onething]

Chris,

I have indeed been reading the Ra material as well as two books, simultaneously, the Divine Cosmos and the Science of Oneness, and I am not sure why my commentary is not pertinent to it.

This forum is already nearly dead, very little activity...

[Moderator: again, I wasn't speaking to anyone in particular, so we don't need to get all bent out of shape:) ]

[MarkM]

Upon reading this thread, it occurrs to me that 3D is a fixed density of dual polarity of positive/negative, wherein there is always catalyst generated thereby through turbulent, often bitter experience.

Individuals eventually choose as a result of this catalyst to move beyond 3D by consciously deciding to polarize one way or the other. But 3D is first and foremost a forum for this deciding and polarizing, and as such will always be a place of struggle and a school of hard knocks, and generally speaking, not a place for universal human harmony and love.

If this actually occurrs upon a 3D planet, the 3D experience of the human dwellers is cut short via a early harvest into 4D and the planet remains vacant for the balance of the 75,000 year 3D term. From what I recall of the Ra material, this is a relatively uncommon scenario.

3D is as a furnace or crucible of evolution, a mercifully short time beginning with the dawn of self-awareness, of moving from the pack or herd mentality of the animal kingdom of survival of the fittest through to beings able to be 4D harvestable. This doesn't mean there can't be peace and love here, obviously, but one doesn't necessarily expect that this condition will become universal in 3D.

[MarkM]

Upon reading this thread, it occurrs to me that 3D is a fixed density of dual polarity of positive/negative, wherein there is always catalyst generated thereby through turbulent, often bitter experience.

Individuals eventually choose as a result of this catalyst to move beyond 3D by consciously deciding to polarize one way or the other. But 3D is first and foremost a forum for this deciding and polarizing, and as such will always be a place of struggle and a school of hard knocks, and generally speaking, not a place for universal human harmony and love.

If this actually occurrs upon a 3D planet, the 3D experience of the human dwellers is cut short via a early harvest into 4D and the planet remains vacant for the balance of the 75,000 year 3D term. From what I recall of the Ra material, this is a relatively uncommon scenario.

3D is as a furnace or crucible of evolution, a mercifully short time beginning with the dawn of self-awareness, of moving from the pack or herd mentality of the animal kingdom of survival of the fittest through to beings able to be 4D harvestable. This doesn't mean there can't be peace and love here, obviously, but one doesn't necessarily expect that this condition will become universal in 3D.

Another thought is that 3D can be thought of as analogous to basic training or boot camp for the military - brief, intense, shocking and hard - but a necessary preparatory phase for future service.

A crude analogy to be sure, but it illustrates the fact that a 'basic training' academy of any kind is something you move through and hopefully get out at the other end, so that now the newer recruits can come in the beginning in order to cycle through the program in turn.

As such there is a turnstyle effect, a constantly upward spiralling flow through a fixed level of experience. As you get on the bus to leave boot camp, you see the newer recruits out on the parade square going through the same drills you went through a short time ago - the activities on the parade square never vary, and although your short experience has catalysed great personal evolution for you ,the overall experience of boot camp is itself static and not seen to be evolving per se, which you would see if you revisited many years later.

[MarkM]

Ra is somewhat vague about this, but it sounds to me like we do need the physical body to die for this process to complete.

I had previously been studying other sources that say the physical body does not need to die; it can be transformed, or transmuted into a higher vibration. But Ra simply says, that we "will die according to third-density necessities." Here's more;

Questioner: ... I am trying to understand how this transition takes place from third to fourth-density. I will take the example of one of these entities of which we are speaking who is now in a third-density body. He will grow older and then will it be necessary that he die from the third-density physical body and reincarnate in a fourth-density body for that transition?

Ra: I am Ra. These entities are those incarnating with what you may call a double body in activation. It will be noted that the entities birthing these fourth-density entities experience a great feeling of, shall we say, the connection and the use of spiritual energies during pregnancy. This is due to the necessity for manifesting the double body.
This transitional body is one which will be, shall we say, able to appreciate fourth-density vibratory complexes as the instreaming increases without the accompanying disruption of the third-density body. If a third-density entity were, shall we say, electrically aware of fourth-density in full, the third-density electrical fields would fail due to incompatibility.
To answer your query about death, these entities will die according to third-density necessities.
Questioner: The— you are saying, then, that for the transition from third to fourth-density for one of the entities with doubly activated bodies, in order to make the transition the third-density body will go through the process of what we call death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. The third and fourth, combination, density’s body will die according to the necessity of third-density mind/body/spirit complex distortions.

Interesting to note, Ra mentions that it is those with the double body activated that must experience the dying of the physical body. Ra doesn't say that those with only a 3D body will die, but specifies those with the transitional body. Perhaps this is because with a 4D body already activated, the transfiguration of the 3D body would represent an unnecessary, problematic redundancy.

With the increasing inflow of galactic or cosmic energy into the solar system and thence into the energy body of Earth comes an increasing pressure for Earth to conform to these new energetic parameters.

As two adjacent tectonic plates moving laterally to each other release their pent up energy all at once in a sudden seismic event, so the earth will be compelled to pop into a higher frequency of vibration as she is no longer able to withstand the pressures calling her on.

So shall we be compelled to follow (those who are 4D harvestable, anyway). When the Earth pops through into 4D space/time, we shall pop through as well, unless there is some sort of transitory phase we need to go through first.

In any event, DNA is now known to be able to instantly alter it's architecture in accord with the introduction of varying intensities or frequencies of incoming energy. A frog embryo can be spontaneously transformed into a salamander embryo, without the need for the dissolution or death of the embryo. Perhaps we can appear in 4D space/time instantly without the need for the dissolution of our 3D bodies, but in an upgraded version of the bodies we inhabit now.

The thought then occurs, Venus once hosted a 3D population which was harvested, and presumably the planet ascended, as well. But we still see Venus hanging around in 3D.This is why I suspect a planet exists in all densities simultaneously; quite likely not removed in space or time, but in frequency of vibration, much like various separate TV stations can manifest through the same telly.

Keep in mind that first, second and third density are not veiled each from the other, and so all are seen by us to exist here in 3D Earth. But a veil exists between 3rd and 4th. Hence the need for a 'new' world, at least on an experiential level. This is why we see Venus as a harsh, uninviting place seemingly devoid of sentient life. We are veiled from it's new reality as a place of higher frequency or density life.

We've got DNA, though, and by virtue of this fact may not have to leave our 3D 'husk' behind.

So, either we 'die', and need to be born of a pre-existing 4D mother, as Ra says that bisexual reproduction is the way it works in 4D, or we spontaneously upgrade our own architecture to match the new 4D environment.

75,000 years ago at the outset of the current 3D sojourn, a certain second density species spontaneously evolved to become human. This didn't require the death of that 2D species, only an enhancement of it's previous form.

So maybe we don't have to die to get to heaven!;)

[twva]

We've got DNA, though, and by virtue of this fact may not have to leave our 3D 'husk' behind.

I agree that this is a plausible reading of what Ra says. However, the process of harvest that Ra describes, where our spirit complexes move as far as possible into exquisitely fastidious gradations of light, doesn't seem to me to imply that we will move back into third-density husks after completion.

Moving into the light as far as possible just seems like it would make the idea of putting back on a third-density body unappealing. (To me at least.)

But I do concede that Ra is ambiguous on this point and that an argument can be made the other way.

Here is a quote that may (or may not) support what I am saying:
Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.

Also, there is a quote a little further in the session that you quoted from, Mark, that does seem to say that all third-density bodies have to die to reach fourth density:
Questioner: Now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

However, this quote does seem to suggest that third- and fourth-density entities may be able to coexist, for a while at least. It's not clear to me if it's only referring to dual third/fourth offspring or if it might be suggesting that purely fourth-density offspring could be born to third-density parents:
Questioner: I will make this statement and have you correct me. What we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth-density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. These atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the fourth-density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. To be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. This creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density type of physical vehicle and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.

I think it plausible that the evolutionary process of neoteny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny) may have been at work in the transition from second to third density and may also be involved in the movement from third to fourth. Humans do kind of look like baby chimps that became sexually mature, and the typical gray aliens look, to me at least, like overgrown human babies. Our transition to third density, though, was (according to Ra) somewhat unusual in that genetic manipulation was also performed on the new third-density vehicles.

[Wintonwy]

Last edited by MarkM : Yesterday at 09:54 PM. Reason: a careless misspelling of 'Water Buffalo'

I Guess mention of 'Water Buffalo' must've been in the 4D version of your post or am i 3D blind as well? :p

[MarkM]

Thank you, Twva, great grist for the mill!

I must admit, I have been trying to reconcile the notion of an instantaneous jump into 4D with what can be gleaned from the Ra material, and much discussion and thought are necessary in order to fill in the blanks.

Questioner: I will make this statement and have you correct me. What we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth-density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. These atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the fourth-density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. To be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. This creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density type of physical vehicle and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.

It seems Ra is unambiguous in stating that there is a gradual rather than instantaneous creation of 4D body complexes. Interesting in light of the fact that 3D and 4D bodies are electrically incompatible with each other - maybe there's a series of stages over a few generations... well, just speculation, to be sure.

A Law of One study group may establish a set of various possibility parameters or alternative scenarios related to the transition, members offering speculation and others offering percieved problems or ramifications, perhaps weaving in new insights from the cutting edge of science, thus building new or augmented ideas, etc.

The concept of a rapturous style, sudden ascension wherein the physical body itself is transformed or transfigured, rather than the dead body or 'husk' being left behind is probably a common imagining amongst those who consider these things, as I have imagined; perhaps a native survival instinct not wanting to countenance the physical death of the body of themselves or their loved ones.

Many are focused on the 2012 timeframe, and expect a sudden, discontinuous event wherein all the processes of transition are wrapped up in one fell swoop. But there could be stages and processes involved that we could not imagine in the least.

I am intrigued with the concept of neoteny, it seems possible that this could help explain the mechanism of a rapid evolutionary leap of a species. A grey alien has been described by some as a human foetus whose development is suspended at the end of what would be the third month of gestation, growing to 'adulthood' with only certain select bodily systems allowed to develop further. (Have a look at a picture of a foetus at the end of the first trimester!)

I'm happy you pointed out the above quote by Ra, I know I won't be able to help myself pondering possible ways in which a continued chain of reproduction may bridge the gap into 4D, given the inability of third density to percieve fourth, the electrical incompatability issue, the more difficult concepts as in time/space vs space/time, the various energy bodies of a body/mind/spirit complex... I sense much study, contemplation and meditation on all these issues will be necessary in order for me to gain more insight!:)

Now, to find my 'Google' taskbar and search on 'doubly activated bodies'...hmm, terminology probably too vague.

What about Indigo children? I wonder if these are what Ra was referring to? Shall have to check it out.

Note to self - balance outer seeking with inner!

Sorry for my stream of conciousness rant..

Yours, Mark

[twva]

Sorry for my stream of conciousness rant..

I quite enjoyed your "rant" :)

There's definitely an implicit contradiction between Ra's description of planetary harvest and their suggestion of a gradual evolution from third to fourth density. Unless, I suppose, the harvest doesn't happen to everyone at the same time. Maybe it happens on an individual basis, at the time of death? I'd always assumed it was a planet-wide event. Time to re-read!

I've been thinking about how the same events can be interpreted differently by different people. My wife's brother, for example, is resolute in his belief that the earthquakes of the last quarter-century or so are by no means out of the ordinary, geologically speaking. Others, of course, see them as indications of imminent and far greater changes.

It seems likely to me that, given the fundamental-ness of free will, the events leading to the full emergence of fourth density will continue to be suggestive of multiple interpretations right until the last moment.

You know, Ra didn't say that fourth-density bodies were incompatible with third density, only vice-versa. Also, and intriguingly for the scenario of gradual evolution, they said that early fourth-density entities have to learn how to become invisible to third density. Can't you just see exasperated third-density parents scolding their fourth-density offspring? "Young man, you turn visible right this instant!"

I suppose, though, that the gradual nature of the establishment of fourth-density bodies could refer to the time necessary to populate fourth-density earth to its full capacity, starting with just the 35,000 or so (was it?) dual third/fourth bodies in existence in 1981. ("Gradual" referring to the gradual population of the planet rather than the gradual evolution of the body.) After all, the idea of neoteny suggests, to me at least, a fairly rapid development where infants (fetuses?) are suddenly able to attain sexual maturity.

In love and light,
Tobey

[SuperManny]

Some very interesting and excellent reading indeed! :)
I've been wondering about these things ever since I've heard the term 'harvest'. I've played out a hundred scenarios in my mind, and I gotta say that I just can't quite find the one that 'clicks' for me. Probably just a bit more than my 3rd dimensional mind can fathom at least at this point.

Now Ra makes it very clear that we "will die according to third-density necessities." just whatever the heck that actually means. He may actually be saying the 3rd density body will die and our consciousness will simply be shifted into our 4th density bodies without missing a beat. Is this possible? and then when I go asking what is possible, some days it seems everything is possible and other days it seems nothing is. Now my brain is starting to hurt.

Could it be somewhat like going from one day to the next, where we spend one day in 3d and have some vivid 'dreams' and start the next day out in 4d, with nothing more than a nagging suspicion that something has changed?

Or maybe just the opposite where we'll see the clouds open up; our guides and teachers all appear like magic and the veil drops and we'll know intuitively everything that is going on? Or maybe somewhere in the middle.

From what Ra does say it's hard to completely and totally rule anything out. From the way he describes the process of going from 2D to 3D, it appears that it took roughly 2 generations to go from the hairy apelike mammal to the mostly hairless model that we adopted and inhabited.

Well anyhow I'm ready, let's get this thing started, already! :)

[Understanding]

I haven't found out what is going to happen when 2012 comes around. I haven't found a theory that suits me either. Sometimes I think it will happen something similar to how the lead role in that movie dark city. I might have remembered this wrong, but He sort of falls asleep for a unknown period of time and wakes up....

[Michael Donovan]

Yes, see physical reality as 'boot camp' also. Sense Ra saying the same thing but not in those terms.
Seems Ra is promoting an alteration in logic with alteration in terms. If you don't use the same expressions with others there is misunderstanding. What if the expressions themselves indicate something wrong? This is why I think the term 'density' was chosen over 'other dimension'. These terms derived from math and most of math today based on arbitrary decisions in the 1600s and early 1700s. We measure space in three directions. We could have used tetrahedrons and measured the same space with four directions. We 'know' there is no such thing as one or two dimensions. So we 'start' with 3 often referring to physical reality. But we also know that physical material takes of less than 1 percent of 'space'. To indicate 'other realities' we started to say 'other dimensions' More it seems 'other realities' in this space.
Most of my 'boot camp' now is trying to get out of ego. Ego formed for physical survival and is based on fear. This is hard work for me. But in order to graduate from 'boot camp' know I must pass tests.
Michael

[Magical_Mongoose]

We could die, or we may live through the transition. However, it's important to take into serious consideration what Ra said..unfortunately, I cannot directly quote due to the device I'm using, but Ra said the planet has already shifted into 4D...it's our state of consciousness that's lagging behind.
So take the Shift not as something off in the future, but a reality that can be at first noticed and ultimately realized when we allow ourselves to feel the beauty and warmth that belongs to us all.

[DAB]

Originally Posted by MarkM
We've got DNA, though, and by virtue of this fact may not have to leave our 3D 'husk' behind.
...
I agree that this is a plausible reading of what Ra says. However, the process of harvest that Ra describes, where our spirit complexes move as far as possible into exquisitely fastidious gradations of light, doesn't seem to me to imply that we will move back into third-density husks after completion.

Moving into the light as far as possible just seems like it would make the idea of putting back on a third-density body unappealing. (To me at least.)

But I do concede that Ra is ambiguous on this point and that an argument can be made the other way.

Here is a quote that may (or may not) support what I am saying:
...
Originally Posted by Ra
Here we have the anomaly of harvest. In harvest the entity will then transfer its indigo body into violet-ray manifestation as seen in true color yellow. This is for the purpose of gauging the harvestability of the entity. After this anomalous activity has been carefully completed, the entity will move into indigo body again and be placed in the correct true color locus in space/time and time/space at which time the healings and learn/teachings necessary shall be completed and further incarnation needs determined.
...

Also, there is a quote a little further in the session that you quoted from, Mark, that does seem to say that all third-density bodies have to die to reach fourth density:
...
Questioner: Now as this transition continues into fourth-density activation, in order to inhabit this fourth-density sphere it will be necessary for all third-density physical bodies to go through the process which we refer to as death. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
...


However, this quote does seem to suggest that third- and fourth-density entities may be able to coexist, for a while at least. It's not clear to me if it's only referring to dual third/fourth offspring or if it might be suggesting that purely fourth-density offspring could be born to third-density parents:
...
Questioner: I will make this statement and have you correct me. What we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth-density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. These atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the fourth-density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. To be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. This creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density type of physical vehicle and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.
...

I think it plausible that the evolutionary process of neoteny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny) may have been at work in the transition from second to third density and may also be involved in the movement from third to fourth. Humans do kind of look like baby chimps that became sexually mature, and the typical gray aliens look, to me at least, like overgrown human babies. Our transition to third density, though, was (according to Ra) somewhat unusual in that genetic manipulation was also performed on the new third-density vehicles.

Hi Twva,
Doctor Gibson may very well be talking of the very same things in this interview:

[please email for the url]

It is free to watch and free to register.

The Spirit Guide that appeared to Dr. Gibson may be connected indirectly/directly to Ra...my speculation.

[soup]

...I think it plausible that the evolutionary process of neoteny may have been at work in the transition from second to third density and may also be involved in the movement from third to fourth....


I remember observing, playing, interacting with a three year old and realizing - this is my mentor...


soup

[onething]

I find those two statements of Ra utterly inconsistent.

[soup]

My impression is that one of the potentials of harvest is a means to transfer from one planet to another, that which is important.

In the case where entities are being moved from one planet to another, my impression is that the entities necessarily need to die physically, then by harvest/transferred by whatever means to their new home, then incarnate physically into new lifeforms compatible with their new home planet.

In the case where entities are not being moved to another planet, my impression is that they would not necessarily need to die physically, that life goes on with the densities comingling as they've done for centuries. In this case, I also get the impression that there's "lighter" lifeforms that may be more compatible with 4D experience and this is where the idea of evolution by way of reproduction may be a factor.


soup

[onething]

In the case where entities are being moved from one planet to another, my impression is that the entities necessarily need to die physically, then by harvest/transferred by whatever means to their new home, then incarnate physically into new lifeforms compatible with their new home planet.

That makes sense.

In the case where entities are not being moved to another planet, my impression is that they would not necessarily need to die physically,

For some reason I find this idea tremendously attractive. It seems like it would be an exhilarating experience.


that life goes on with the densities comingling as they've done for centuries. In this case, I also get the impression that there's "lighter" lifeforms that may be more compatible with 4D experience and this is where the idea of evolution by way of reproduction may be a factor.

the densities don't really comingle s much as coexist, no? I must've missed Ra's evolution stuff. I don't picture 4D beings as having sex or reproduction. Or DNA as we know it.

[soup]

...the densities don't really comingle s much as coexist, no? I must've missed Ra's evolution stuff. I don't picture 4D beings as having sex or reproduction. Or DNA as we know it....

There's the intestinal flora, a sort of 2D lifeform, that has opportunity to thrive within the intestinal tract. It may be that there is some sort of reproduction going on with it as within the lifecycle of the flora there, beyond the conscious awareness of the 3D entity. In this sense, there seems a comingling that goes on beyond some conscious awareness of the 3Der. Likewise, there may be comingling going with higher densities, beyond the conscious awareness of the 3Der, at the same time as the intestinal flora, and so on, in a sort of overlapped way - beyond the conscious awareness of the 3der, though difficult to say for sure.



soup

[Billuminous]

Questioner: I will make this statement and have you correct me. What we have is, as our planet is spiraled by the spiraling action of the entire major galaxy and our planetary system spirals into the new position, the fourth-density vibrations becoming more and more pronounced. These atomic core vibrations begin to create, more and more completely, the fourth-density sphere and the fourth-density bodily complexes for inhabitation of that sphere. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. To be corrected is the concept of the creation of green-ray density bodily complexes. This creation will be gradual and will take place beginning with your third-density type of physical vehicle and, through the means of bisexual reproduction, become by evolutionary processes, the fourth-density body complexes.

To me, this sounds like the alien hybrid breeding program. According to the abduction experts, this has been going on for quite a while. My understanding is that those with the dual 3D/4D bodies will be joining up with the hybrids after the shift occurs. Those 4D STOs without the dual bodies will need to enter the system via reincarnation. However, it's not clear to me where the hybrids live at the moment in 4D space/time. It's also not clear to me which ET race provided the DNA necessary for upgrading the 3D human vehicle.

My sense is the earth will need to be evacuated for a while after the cataclysms, and recolonized later.

[soup]

When think of Hybrids and the concept of reproduction comes to mind, that hybrids don't seem to be successfully reproductive - though I haven't studied them very thouroughly. There's some amazing Lion and Tiger mixes out there with an interesting "frankenword"(portmanteaux) that describes them - Ligers.


soup

[soup]

...When we enter the 4th dimension Do we die? ...


As mentioned elsewhere, the definition of being "physically alive" seems debatable. That is, on some level at any given time there seem a certain percentage of cells that are dying or have recently died as within our process of ongoing regeneration (as within an individual who appears normally alive.)

In this context, the process of dying may pertain to a subordinate effect which goes unnoticed as the conscious attention is applied more to such abstract thought concepts as within a 4D way of life.


soup

[MarkM]

There may be a usable concept here of dropping from identification with this body in a way analogous with an inverse to the concept of death - rather, a leap to a higher life paradigm, a transition in which the concept of death is not useful, but rather a stepping up to an advanced life experience.

Perhaps the concept of the opposite of death is not merely life, but a potential quantum leap in the existential quality of life itself. Dante's 'divine comedy' may be a statement in this regard, in that a point arises in which the individual perceives the concept of death as necessarily encompassing enhanced life.

Here, so called death promises renewal of opportunity of the experience of new life, based within and on top of past experience, rendering death no more than a clearing of the way to allowing love and wisdom to be made more cleanly manifest. Death as an opportunity for enhanced life, in a new set of youthful chances to capitalize on lessons learned.

[3D Sunset]

Here is my understanding on the transition from 3D to 4D, drawn primarily from the Ra material and other channeled info from Elkins, Rueckert, McCarty and Wilcock. I would be glad to find references in their material if you are interested:

- Currently there are 4D harvested souls that have been born into 3D bodies. These are the jointly or dual activated bodies mentioned earlier. Note however that they are not 4D beings. They are 3D beings complete with all the challenges and limitations, and opportunities inherent in 3D life (including, very importantly, the veil precluding their remembering their past lives and evolutionary history). Yet they are also able to begin to perform 4D work and experience the 4D energies.
- These dual activated beings are here to begin the evolution that will result in full 4D beings, and will remain on Earth after ascension. They will continue to live in 3D even as they interact with offspring that are evolving toward 4D beings. Ra indicates that it will take 100-700 years to complete the evolution of 3D beings to 4D. He also indicates that this will require 1-2 generations. Recall that this is easily within the span of a single 3D lifetime when Earth is not contaminated with the negative forces and absence of Law of One focus that existents today. So it is quite possible that these dual activated individuals will live to see true 4D beings in their lifetime.
- All 3D beings will die and cannot experience true 4D. Ra does not say what it will mean to live in a 3D aspect of a true 4D world. He does indicate that it is quite possible for this to happen, and said that Earth may be used as a 3D environment again after the 4D beings learn to conceal themselves.
- I seem to recall DW, CR, and JM having channeled information indicating that 3D entities still on Earth after ascension will busy themselves healing the planet and cleaning up our collective 3D mess. I am not clear as to whether this will be done by only those with dual activated bodies, or will also include 4D harvestable 3D entities that remain after ascension, but I believe that both will be involved. Also not discussed is whether any true 3D beings that may remain after ascension will be able to have children. I presume that the answer is yes, and also presume that these would create additional dual activated entities.
- Remember that an important aspect of 4D existence is the absence of the 3D veil. I can only imagine what it will be like to have children that remember their and your past lives as well as manifesting other currently miraculous abilities. This is one critical reason that I do not see people simply sliding from 3D to 4D in their current bodies. As I understand it, the lessons of love in 4D require a completely different set of mental capabilities than a 3D mind can support. Simply put, we are not wired for 4D experience. Also, Ra stated that 4D lives tend to be much longer than our 3D bodies can survive (on the order of 90,000 years as I recall). This also points to the need to transition out of our 3D bodies in order to experience 4D life.

That now having been said, I think we should all focus on the evolutionary opportunities that will be available to us once we inhabit 4D bodies, and concern ourselves less with the process that gets us into them, beyond of course, our personal, inward looking actions necessary to ensure our harvestability.

3D Sunset

[soup]

It may be that the typical disconnect between men and women may be due to density differences with corresponding differences in lessons to learn...

soup