Jeremy Weiland
11-16-2001, 10:02 AM
Hey Muddy,
I think our topic of discussion is important for an
understanding of what Ra is saying about the nature of
3D and the process of polarization, so I'm going to
pursue this dialogue so that you can see where I'm
coming from.
Now, in a previous post that started this whole
thread, you said:
>> Whereas an sto person need only be 51% sto to
>> harvest to sto 4d. This means an sto person can
>> demonstrate 49% sts and still be sto and harvest to
>> an sto planet in 4d. According to Ra, Jesus was
>> excessively sto which caused him to become a martyr
>> and create problems for himself to this day in the
>> density where he abides.
OK, so what I think you're saying is that there are
dangers in polarizing too much, and that Jesus is an
example of an entity that created problems for itself
in later development due to excessive polarization.
Therefore, one should not polarize too much in the sto
direction since only 51% sto is neccessary to ascend.
Please correct any errors I've made in this assessment
of your point of view.
Then recently, to give an example of this idea in the
Ra material, you wrote:
> RA: As a group soul in 4th density, we had the
> tendency towards compassion even to martyrdom in aid
> of other selves. When the 5th density harvest was
> achieved, we found that, in this vibratory level,
> flaws could be seen in the usefulness of such
> unrelieved compassion. We spent much time in
> contemplation of those ways of the Creator which
> fill love with Wisdom. (B2, 95)
(Note: the purpose of all this quoting is not to try
to "overanalyze" you, find a fault in your reasoning,
and criticize you. I'm just trying to make sure that
I understand where you're coming from so I can respond
halfway coherently. I really appreciate you engaging
me like this.) :-)
OK, so you're equating the "problems" Jesus is having
in the higher densities to "flaws in compassion" that
Ra noticed of its 4D experiences. I agree with this
comparison, but I differ with you on its significance.
Now I don't think that what Ra and Jesus were going
through were "problems", per se. On the contrary,
they are the exact thing you're supposed to experience
in 5D. 5D is the density of wisdom, and according to
Ra, this is the density where we examine our
experiences and try to learn about the ways of wisdom.
So in finding flaws with ways that they acted in 4D,
*neither Jesus nor Ra are experiencing abnormal
complications in evolution and development*; rather,
they are going through the self examination that every
entity participates in as they hit 5D. If you're an
entity in your development to unity that hasn't hit 5D
or 6D yet, you're not going to know how to properly
integrate wisdom with love; that's why you're going to
act without wisdom, and that's where you will
experience those things that will *catalyze* you to
incorporate wisdom into your understanding. In short,
you're *supposed* to have the types of problems that
Ra and Jesus were having!
So what I'm saying is that Jesus and Ra's martyrdoms
were not bad things that held them back; they were
experiences that followed from the 4D mindset that
they were at at that time. They may not have been
acts wholly consistent with unity, but nobody is going
to act wholly in unity as long as they are in
densities lower than the 8th (or maybe 7th).
(Distorted) experience and its evaluation is the
engine of development through the densities, and the
paths that Ra and Jesus took were the proper paths for
entities at their level.
Taken in a more general context, what I'm saying is
that polarization to any degree is not a detriment to
further development, although you are correct in
pointing out that it may provide experiences that are
challenging to the entity. But that's what we're here
for: to work on the self.
> Polarization means "Charge". Seeking to become
> more sto is like becoming a Jesus Freak, it seems to
> me.
Wow, difference of opinion here, but I don't see a
"Jesus Freak" as the epitomy of STO. A lot of the
freaks I know are trying to reel people into their
line of thinking without accepting the free will of
people to follow their own path, which is decidedly
negative. Since they believe that "Jesus is the only
way," they are not providing the most love/light in
service as is possible. Now, I'm not saying that
every freak is this way, and I'm sure there's some
counterexamples, but I'm just saying that I disagree
with your generalization of jesus freaks as sto, since
that's the exact opposite of what I would have
classified the stereotypical freak as.
> Does it increase your "charge"? and for how
> long? Is it permanent, or is it actually a Self
> Deception of STS? Becoming more sto means becoming
> more sto as a whole being (Wide), not as a mental
> construct.
Well, you're either following an STS path, a STO path,
or are insufficiently polarized to follow either. But
we're not talking about what path an entity *thinks*
it is on, but rather which path it *is* on.
Obviously, there are many people who act negatively
when they think they are acting positively, but that's
not the point: the point of your post is that
polarization, which is a condition that affects the
entity in all its manifestations (including the mental
construct, which I grant could conceivably not be in
line with the actual path of the entity as a whole),
can be detrimental to an extreme degree. While an
entity can have difficult expreriences because of
distortions in the understanding of true service, this
doesn't have anything to do with which path it is
following (at least IMHO).
So basically what I am saying is just b/c somebody
thinks they're sto (high) doesn't mean they are
(wide). They can either polarize to a greater or
lesser degree on their path that they are on
(wideness), but I can't see how this is not in line
with normal development in the first place.
> Living out our sts desires increases
> our charge, and increases our polarization to sto,
> if that's our "natural or true" polarity.
Well, I guess that's true. Nobody's saying you have
to do anything just because you're on a certain path,
and pursuing those interests that reflect negativity
can certainly serve to catalyze somebody in a positive
direction, no argument there. But remember that this
whole thread started because somebody said that they
appreciated people pointing out works that reflected
negativity, because he did not want to view works that
had negativity in them. If we allow choice in one
direction, we must allow it equally in the other,
right?
> A fifth
> density sts changes very easily to sixth density sto
> when he/she realizes that sts is a dead end at fifth
> density. This is because he/she already is "
> highly charged".
Actually, I believe that Ra says that this is a very
difficult process for the 5th density negative entity.
But at that point, polarization is not the point,
since a 5D going to 6D is already highly "charged";
rather, going to 6D, they are trying to integrate
unity since it's the next logical step for sto and
sts. Let us remember that the whole purpose for
polarization or charge in 3D, 4D, and 5D is to yield
the most potent experiences. This is *all* about the
creator experiencing itself with the result of
returning to unity.
> What do you think of them apples?
Would you mind explaining this? \:-)
Good discussion... it helps me internalize this stuff
when I write about it.
Thanks,
Jeremy
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I think our topic of discussion is important for an
understanding of what Ra is saying about the nature of
3D and the process of polarization, so I'm going to
pursue this dialogue so that you can see where I'm
coming from.
Now, in a previous post that started this whole
thread, you said:
>> Whereas an sto person need only be 51% sto to
>> harvest to sto 4d. This means an sto person can
>> demonstrate 49% sts and still be sto and harvest to
>> an sto planet in 4d. According to Ra, Jesus was
>> excessively sto which caused him to become a martyr
>> and create problems for himself to this day in the
>> density where he abides.
OK, so what I think you're saying is that there are
dangers in polarizing too much, and that Jesus is an
example of an entity that created problems for itself
in later development due to excessive polarization.
Therefore, one should not polarize too much in the sto
direction since only 51% sto is neccessary to ascend.
Please correct any errors I've made in this assessment
of your point of view.
Then recently, to give an example of this idea in the
Ra material, you wrote:
> RA: As a group soul in 4th density, we had the
> tendency towards compassion even to martyrdom in aid
> of other selves. When the 5th density harvest was
> achieved, we found that, in this vibratory level,
> flaws could be seen in the usefulness of such
> unrelieved compassion. We spent much time in
> contemplation of those ways of the Creator which
> fill love with Wisdom. (B2, 95)
(Note: the purpose of all this quoting is not to try
to "overanalyze" you, find a fault in your reasoning,
and criticize you. I'm just trying to make sure that
I understand where you're coming from so I can respond
halfway coherently. I really appreciate you engaging
me like this.) :-)
OK, so you're equating the "problems" Jesus is having
in the higher densities to "flaws in compassion" that
Ra noticed of its 4D experiences. I agree with this
comparison, but I differ with you on its significance.
Now I don't think that what Ra and Jesus were going
through were "problems", per se. On the contrary,
they are the exact thing you're supposed to experience
in 5D. 5D is the density of wisdom, and according to
Ra, this is the density where we examine our
experiences and try to learn about the ways of wisdom.
So in finding flaws with ways that they acted in 4D,
*neither Jesus nor Ra are experiencing abnormal
complications in evolution and development*; rather,
they are going through the self examination that every
entity participates in as they hit 5D. If you're an
entity in your development to unity that hasn't hit 5D
or 6D yet, you're not going to know how to properly
integrate wisdom with love; that's why you're going to
act without wisdom, and that's where you will
experience those things that will *catalyze* you to
incorporate wisdom into your understanding. In short,
you're *supposed* to have the types of problems that
Ra and Jesus were having!
So what I'm saying is that Jesus and Ra's martyrdoms
were not bad things that held them back; they were
experiences that followed from the 4D mindset that
they were at at that time. They may not have been
acts wholly consistent with unity, but nobody is going
to act wholly in unity as long as they are in
densities lower than the 8th (or maybe 7th).
(Distorted) experience and its evaluation is the
engine of development through the densities, and the
paths that Ra and Jesus took were the proper paths for
entities at their level.
Taken in a more general context, what I'm saying is
that polarization to any degree is not a detriment to
further development, although you are correct in
pointing out that it may provide experiences that are
challenging to the entity. But that's what we're here
for: to work on the self.
> Polarization means "Charge". Seeking to become
> more sto is like becoming a Jesus Freak, it seems to
> me.
Wow, difference of opinion here, but I don't see a
"Jesus Freak" as the epitomy of STO. A lot of the
freaks I know are trying to reel people into their
line of thinking without accepting the free will of
people to follow their own path, which is decidedly
negative. Since they believe that "Jesus is the only
way," they are not providing the most love/light in
service as is possible. Now, I'm not saying that
every freak is this way, and I'm sure there's some
counterexamples, but I'm just saying that I disagree
with your generalization of jesus freaks as sto, since
that's the exact opposite of what I would have
classified the stereotypical freak as.
> Does it increase your "charge"? and for how
> long? Is it permanent, or is it actually a Self
> Deception of STS? Becoming more sto means becoming
> more sto as a whole being (Wide), not as a mental
> construct.
Well, you're either following an STS path, a STO path,
or are insufficiently polarized to follow either. But
we're not talking about what path an entity *thinks*
it is on, but rather which path it *is* on.
Obviously, there are many people who act negatively
when they think they are acting positively, but that's
not the point: the point of your post is that
polarization, which is a condition that affects the
entity in all its manifestations (including the mental
construct, which I grant could conceivably not be in
line with the actual path of the entity as a whole),
can be detrimental to an extreme degree. While an
entity can have difficult expreriences because of
distortions in the understanding of true service, this
doesn't have anything to do with which path it is
following (at least IMHO).
So basically what I am saying is just b/c somebody
thinks they're sto (high) doesn't mean they are
(wide). They can either polarize to a greater or
lesser degree on their path that they are on
(wideness), but I can't see how this is not in line
with normal development in the first place.
> Living out our sts desires increases
> our charge, and increases our polarization to sto,
> if that's our "natural or true" polarity.
Well, I guess that's true. Nobody's saying you have
to do anything just because you're on a certain path,
and pursuing those interests that reflect negativity
can certainly serve to catalyze somebody in a positive
direction, no argument there. But remember that this
whole thread started because somebody said that they
appreciated people pointing out works that reflected
negativity, because he did not want to view works that
had negativity in them. If we allow choice in one
direction, we must allow it equally in the other,
right?
> A fifth
> density sts changes very easily to sixth density sto
> when he/she realizes that sts is a dead end at fifth
> density. This is because he/she already is "
> highly charged".
Actually, I believe that Ra says that this is a very
difficult process for the 5th density negative entity.
But at that point, polarization is not the point,
since a 5D going to 6D is already highly "charged";
rather, going to 6D, they are trying to integrate
unity since it's the next logical step for sto and
sts. Let us remember that the whole purpose for
polarization or charge in 3D, 4D, and 5D is to yield
the most potent experiences. This is *all* about the
creator experiencing itself with the result of
returning to unity.
> What do you think of them apples?
Would you mind explaining this? \:-)
Good discussion... it helps me internalize this stuff
when I write about it.
Thanks,
Jeremy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com